mkpdavies

Been there, done that, ain't doing it again for anybody and especially this cow.

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My ignore list

Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

Millennium3

When was that - is there a book in it.

prober

We have pensioner members whose weekly income is less than earnings from the minimum wage yet with real inflation for these over 10% . No doubt something can be learned from Polly's slumming it but minimum wage is a normal transition for students young etc to something better as they get knowledge & experience. The real scandal is New Labour fat cats driving pensioners into poverty while having to pay crippling tax for public sector bonanza pensions. If UKIP is ever to break silence & start to be a relevant campaiging party , thats where it should be.

Millennium3

It would be good if UKIP did become a campaigning party - there very many issues to campaign about, but I do not believe things will change with the current leadership. Historians will conclude, if they bother to judge it, that UKIP contribution was to stunt the anti EU movement and help Labour stay in power for more than a decade [and how much longer].

Life must be more difficult for the young and least able, with, who knows how many 100,000's, Poles, other Eastern Europeans etc competing for the jobs they once would have got relatively easily.

To keep things in prospective - remember the toilet in West Hampstead[?] where Poles slept and they fought for the disabled cubicle because thet could lay down properly there. If this is worthwhile existence - our young and least able are facing extremely determined competition.

tito

Keep labour in power?

I'm not going to entertain that notion, by distinguishing between our three current parties (Left, lefter and leftist)

The Tories would have done things exactly the same.

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Millennium3

My arguement is not that the Tories would have done much better, although they probably are marginally more Eurosceptic and are not dominated by the Scottish Raj, but that a new party will expose many issues which Labour has been extremely skilled at hiding. Many of which are coming to light - dispite Brown's best efforts.

A Tory new broom might not sweep clean, but I think it would sweep cleaner!

girlfriday

In response to both arguments, UKIP has, often by its own admission, cost the Conservatives both votes and seats, and that over the last 10 years (including the efforts of the Referendum Party), almost have certainly aided New Labour to successive victories, often with zero net gain to UKIP or the anti-Euro movement itself.

As for the minimum wage, the response from some on this forum simply reflects the relatively comfy Tory existance that most have entered, and the failure to recognise this as an issue, not only condemns them, but UKIP as a whole, and identifies UKIP as nothing more than an exclusive rich man's club for the Euronically-challenged.

UKIP should adopt three additional letters to it's already withered title; that of R.I.P!

eublues

UKIP's opposition to out-of-control immigration is absolutely about the effect on the jobs and wages of those who are not well off.

Baron von Lotsov

"by a writer who has literally worn the clothes, lived in the flats and done the jobs of the poor. "


Polly Toynbee - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"she had failed the Eleven Plus examination"

"she read history at St Anne's College, Oxford"



"At The Independent, which she joined after leaving the BBC, she was a columnist and associate editor, working with then editor Andrew Marr. After Marr's principal spell as Independent editor she rejoined The Guardian. She has also written for The Observer and the Radio Times; at one time she edited the Washington Monthly USA. Currently Toynbee serves as President of the Social Policy Association."


"Toynbee was the second daughter of the literary critic Philip Toynbee (by his first wife Anne), and so granddaughter of the historian Arnold J. Toynbee and thus great-great niece of philanthropist and economic historian Arnold Toynbee after whom Toynbee Hall in the East End of London is named."



Arnold Toynbee

Although the membership of the Milner Group has slowly shifted with the passing years, the Group still reflects the characteristics of its chief leader and, through him, the ideological orientation of Balliol in the 1870s. Although the Group did not actually come into existence until 1891, its history covers a much longer period, since its origins go back to about 1873. This history can be divided into four periods, of which the first, from 1873 to 1891, could be called the preparatory period and centers about the figures of W.T. Stead and Alfred Milner. The second period, from 1891 to 1901, could be called the Rhodes period, although Stead was the chief figure for most of it. The third period, from 1901 to 1922, could be called the New College period and centers about Alfred Milner. The fourth period, from about 1922 to the present, could be called the All Souls period and centers about Lord Lothian, Lord Brand, and Lionel Curtis. During these four periods, the Group grew steadily in power and influence, until about 1939. It was badly split on the policy of appeasement after 16 March 1939, and received a rude jolt from the General Election of 1945. Until 1939, however, the expansion in power of the Group was fairly consistent. This growth was based on the possession by its members of ability, social connections, and wealth. It is not possible to distinguish the relationship of these three qualities—a not uncommon situation in England.

Milner was able to dominate this Group because he became the focus or rather the intersection point of three influences. These we shall call "the Toynbee group," "the Cecil Bloc," and the "Rhodes secret society." The Toynbee group was a group of political intellectuals formed at Balliol about 1873 and dominated by Arnold Toynbee and Milner himself. It was really the group of Milner’s personal friends. The Cecil Bloc was a nexus of political and social power formed by Lord Salisbury and extending from the great sphere of politics into the fields of education and publicity. In the field of education, its influence was chiefly visible at Eton and Harrow and at All Souls College, Oxford. In the field of publicity, its influence was chiefly visible in The Quarterly Review and The Times. The "Rhodes secret society" was a group of imperial federalists, formed in the period after 1889 and using the economic resources of South Africa to extend and perpetuate the British Empire.


Carroll Quigley, The Anglo-American Establishment, ch 1


How sick the woman is. She is as elite as you can get!

eublues

Does she doesn't mention the effect of immigration on the pay paid and unemployed. I guess not.