News: Government funds Muslim thinkers (BBC News)

Westcountryman · 18-07-2008, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Government funds Muslim thinkers

By Dominic Casciani
BBC News home affairs reporter

The British government is to fund a board of Islamic theologians in an attempt to sideline violent extremists.

The move will see Oxford and Cambridge Universities host a group of scholars who will lead debate on key issues such as women and loyalty to the UK.

The plans have angered some hardline activists who accuse ministers of trying to create state-sponsored Islam.

But Communities Secretary Hazel Blears said it was government's job to support Muslim leaders on controversial issues.

Under the plans, the two universities will bring together about 20 leading thinkers, yet to be named, to debate critical issues affecting Muslims in the UK.

The Department for Communities is responsible for the government's strategy to combat violent extremism, known as "Prevent".

It will provide funding and support for the project but maintains that the board's work will be completely independent of political interference.

The board's work will focus on examining issues relating to Islam's place in Britain and obligations as a citizen.

Ministers say the board's membership will "reflect the diversity of Islam and Muslim communities in the UK" and the work will include seminars around the country.

Sheikh Ibrahim Mogra, a leading imam from Leicester, said establishing a specialist board was the brainchild of a group of Muslims, not the government.

He said: "We felt we needed something of this nature to help create a better structured approach to how we are educating our children.

"We feel our children need to be taught that they can be proud Muslims and proud young British people."

Sheikh Mogra urged communities to support the board - but said there would be reservations about the relationship with government.

"Anything that helps to make our communities stronger should be welcomed - provided that it's not used to isolate, control or change what a community is.

"This board has to be something owned by us, driven by us but supported by government. We've made it clear that it's not for government to touch our theology or touch the way we train our people."

But the MCB, which has a rocky relationship with ministers, said no key thinkers had been consulted and it opposed the proposal.

"For too long now, British Muslims have been viewed by this government through the narrow prism of security," said MCB chief Dr Muhammad Abdul Bari.

"British Muslims - like all citizens - have every right to peacefully disagree with government policies if they wish and they do not need to be 're-programmed' by a government-approved list of theologians,"

'Stronger leadership'

Ms Blears said the department's support for the project emerged out of debate with Muslim communities who asked ministers for help in supporting the work of key thinkers across the UK.

"We have made significant progress working with communities to build an alliance against violent extremists," said Ms Blears.

"We have a responsibility to ensure that our young people are equipped with the skills they need to stand up to violent extremists and help them understand how their faith is compatible with wider shared values.

"It is not for government to dictate on matters of faith or religious teaching. But Muslim communities themselves have told us that stronger leadership is needed on what are often controversial issues."

But Islamic groups who have clashed in the past with the government have already attacked the plans.

Taji Mustafa of Hizb ut-Tahrir, a group that fought government attempts to ban it, predicted that many ordinary Muslims would be suspicious.

"The British government's interference amongst the Muslim community and matters of Islam, is unprecedented in comparison with any other religion," said Mr Mustafa.

"The government would like nothing more than to have credible figures pronounce that opposition to their foreign policy is tantamount to heretical extremism. Their problem hitherto has been to find credible figures to do their work."

Story from BBC NEWS:
BBC NEWS | UK | Government funds Muslim thinkers

Is this something taxpayers' money should be spent on?

Stephen Booth · 24-07-2008, 09:58 PM

This is well meaning but it is bound to have the opposite effect from that intended. In drawing together the leading thinkers, and presumably financing this using government money, anything those thinkers say will come to be viewed as tainted. It is not just the money, but the suggestion that their words are controlled. It will undermine those participating religious thinkers, and this fact will repel the more independently minded of them away from the project. It may draw in others who are lesser figures / inclined to say what they think their funders want them to say, and this will also undermine the scheme.

On the other hand, by repulsion, this will strengthen the hand of the more extreme Imams, who will be able to hold up the example of the Home Office project as an example of the consequences of co-option. It may increase the level of hostility between the moderates and the extremists.

This proposal is doomed, I think the government are in a no-win situation here and it will have the opposite result to their intentions.

Just the sort of half-baked thing you'd expect from Gordon the Loser.

whypatcondellisntfun · 25-07-2008, 09:13 AM

Some interesting rumblings in the Muslim community about this. It is defiantly a hot topic at the moment.

Spirit21 is a respected female Muslim blogger, she doesn't like the idea:

Quote:

The government has stated that it is doing its best to tackle Islamists who are the source of extremism. According to the government, Islamists are all without exception terribly violent and bloodthirsty. Islamists are apparently the cause of the world's problems - earthquakes in China, climate change, food shortages, the fuel crisis and poverty and malnutrition to name but a few. The only good Islamist is an ex-Islamist. The government has then used this premise to go on to define its entire policy about Muslims in the UK around the issue of security, ignoring issues of economics, society, education and deprivation.

The term 'Islamist' was once applied to anyone who used Islam as a political ideology. Muslims who do not have a political ideology of any sort are okay and need not be worried about being infected by Islamism. But the problem is that the term 'Islamism' has now been stretched to mean any Muslim who is political.

Blears insinuates that Muslims who are not politically active are the preferred kind of Muslim. She said in a speech to the Policy Exchange: "The fact remains that most British Muslims, like the wider community, are not politically active, do not sit on committees, and do not attend seminars and meetings. They are working hard, bringing up families, planning their holidays, and going about their business." Jack Straw was also quite clear about this two years ago: you can't be a Muslim woman in niqab and visit your MP to engage in the political process.

Spirit21: The only 'proper' Muslim is a non-political one

I have to say. I kind of agree with her here. There are lots of comments on her article, but regarding the spending of taxpayers money the blogger herself commented:

Quote:

I think Muslims themselves need to proactively build intellectual and leadership resources, I fully agree with that too.

I also agree that Muslim communities are entitled to funding - after all we pay taxes too, and we are subjects of the realm as well.

The problem is that the board is being convened and all the funding for Muslims comes from the fund for "Preventing violent extremism" ie. the board and other projects are designed with the specific government context that the issue which defines Muslims is security/terror and what Muslims need money for is to learn how to be 'proper' Muslims according to the government's prism of security.

Independent can only be as independent as your paymasters allow. That is why the government doesn't interfere with the judiciary and why it doesn't/shouldn't interfere with faith.

Food for thought for those people who think Muslims are running through the streets in glee at this idea.

The Muslim Public Affairs Committee picked up on the blog and has some really interesting comments as well:-

Quote:

There is first the smoke from Labour where they massage our egos with nice statements about Islam....and then the real purpose.
Hoodies are not allowed to carry knives but Labour can stick them in anytime in Muslims.
We are doing our patriotic and democratic duty towards Britain by taking part in the political process and by making it a better place.
We are also part of the ‘‘checks and balances’’ of a thriving democracy.

One wonders where the patriotic duty is of those who are actually in Government and squander billions with their half-baked ideas designed to make money....for someone somewhere.
Where is their patriotic duty when they pay themselves lavish salaries and expenses from British taxpayers' hard-earned money?
That is also why we need to take part in the process to keep these fools in check.

I question their loyalty to Britain.

Zoiks Batman! A proudly British Muslim questioning the patriotism of Labour! Will wonders never cease!

Ea of Dune · 25-07-2008, 02:46 PM

Labour need to stop wasting money on stuff like this end of. We can not afford to keep blowing wads of cash on half baked ideas and junk programs. Our country is in financial dire straits and we need to cut public spending now, not keep spunking cash on "initatives" and other codswallop.

Labour could start by kicking Hamza and Qatar out of the country and doing every community in Britain a bloody favour.

Ea of dune

24-07-2008, 09:58 PM	#2 (permalink)
Stephen Booth Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Galgate, Lancaster Posts: 202 Party: None	Classic problem of co-option This is well meaning but it is bound to have the opposite effect from that intended. In drawing together the leading thinkers, and presumably financing this using government money, anything those thinkers say will come to be viewed as tainted. It is not just the money, but the suggestion that their words are controlled. It will undermine those participating religious thinkers, and this fact will repel the more independently minded of them away from the project. It may draw in others who are lesser figures / inclined to say what they think their funders want them to say, and this will also undermine the scheme. On the other hand, by repulsion, this will strengthen the hand of the more extreme Imams, who will be able to hold up the example of the Home Office project as an example of the consequences of co-option. It may increase the level of hostility between the moderates and the extremists. This proposal is doomed, I think the government are in a no-win situation here and it will have the opposite result to their intentions. Just the sort of half-baked thing you'd expect from Gordon the Loser. __________________ Britain Out of Europe Now !

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25-07-2008, 02:46 PM	#4 (permalink)
Ea of Dune Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Hell Posts: 1,049	Labour need to stop wasting money on stuff like this end of. We can not afford to keep blowing wads of cash on half baked ideas and junk programs. Our country is in financial dire straits and we need to cut public spending now, not keep spunking cash on "initatives" and other codswallop. Labour could start by kicking Hamza and Qatar out of the country and doing every community in Britain a bloody favour. Ea of dune