"Labour neglects Church of England" says Church of England report

Besoeker · 08-06-2008, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smidgey

The Church of Scotland isn't a state church, so I shouldn't suspect that it was. There is no state church up here, they are all separated from it and the government has kept out of the affairs of the different Christian denominations as well as the Muslims, Jews, etc.

As it should be in my opinion.
BTW, I prefer Bach (JS, not CPE) to Handel.

The Bear · 08-06-2008, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rjt

I agree with Smidgey about a minister for religion

I do think the rights of Christians have been trampled over by this government who have done more to dismantle family values than any that have ever soiled the front bench before them.

As a chrisitian I will have to think very carefully about who gets my vote as effectivley we are being disenfranchised.

ALL religions should be disenfranchised.

There is no place, and should BE no place for religion, or religious influence, in government.

Rye Spangle · 08-06-2008, 06:35 PM

Whilst native Brits fight eachover over 'religion' the enemies of Britain/N.Ireland make their advance.

rjt · 08-06-2008, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Bear

ALL religions should be disenfranchised.

There is no place, and should BE no place for religion, or religious influence, in government.

So essentially all people who follow a faith should be disenfranchised from the political process, no person of faith should stand for office?

I thought this was a democracy forum!

The Bear · 09-06-2008, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rjt

So essentially all people who follow a faith should be disenfranchised from the political process, no person of faith should stand for office?

No, but "faith" (delusion) should never be allowed to shape poliicy or law.

If a person feels unabvle to build a firewall between their "faith" and what it brings with it and a job, then they should not do, or be allowed to do a job, nor have any influence based on their faith on people doing that job.

BonnieDundee · 09-06-2008, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Bear

I don’t think it’s a matter of the C of E or the “Wee Free” or whatever, it’s a monumental ignorance about Islam and the horrendous mistake in thinking that it’s essentially the same as Christianity or Judaism and dealing with the difference as one of simple diversity, a thing to be promoted.

In short, yet another bit of staggering incompetence by this awful government.

Bear I'm still searching for backup behind these denunciations of Islam as inherently evil.

The Bear · 09-06-2008, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BonnieDundee

Bear I'm still searching for backup behind these denunciations of Islam as inherently evil.

First there’s a need to define evil (!)

Can we constrain it to be “that which is detrimental to our way of life”?

If so then the restrictions that Islam would impose on us is certainly detrimental.

Then there is the matter of Sha’ia and the punishments that in some cases MUST be employed.

There is so much when you spend time getting to grips with just what a constraining liberty sucking negative regressive thing that it is.

BonnieDundee · 09-06-2008, 10:14 AM

Quote:

First there’s a need to define evil (!)

Can we constrain it to be “that which is detrimental to our way of life”?

No in my opinion.

Quote:

If so then the restrictions that Islam would impose on us is certainly detrimental.

So are alot of this police state stuff you back I'm afraid, that is not normally what "evil" refers to.

Quote:

Then there is the matter of Sha’ia and the punishments that in some cases MUST be employed.

There is so much when you spend time getting to grips with just what a constraining liberty sucking negative regressive thing that it is.

It seems like hyperbole to me. I see no evidence it is any more regressive in itself, it is simply the cultural values of some devotees who are.

The Bear · 09-06-2008, 10:41 AM

Keep looking. For years I thought exactly the same until suddenly it all dropped into place.

At first I thought that I was totally wrong.

Then I realised that I wasn't.

Islam has its place. It's place isn't here in our society nor in our time. For one thing democracy is anathema in Islam and for me that’s more than good enough reason to utterly reject it, for another the very name relates to submission, not submission to the alleged will of the God of the Jews and the Christians, but to the will of a duplicitous individual who claimed he had been given a series of messages.

Funny how these messages changed and even contradicted themselves as his needs changed over time though.

Islam is of the distant past. It can not be changed to bring it up to date despite what so many claim, it demands that where what we do today is at odds with Islam it is what we do that must be changed.

Then of course there is the “know the tree by its fruit”. The sad part is that the fruit of Islam frequently explodes killing people.

rjt · 09-06-2008, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Bear

No, but "faith" (delusion) should never be allowed to shape poliicy or law.

If a person feels unabvle to build a firewall between their "faith" and what it brings with it and a job, then they should not do, or be allowed to do a job, nor have any influence based on their faith on people doing that job.

In which case then you would only have one perspective influencing events, that of non belief. As a christian my faith influences the decisions I make, you seek to cut me out of the political spectrum.

What is a catholic for example to do when a vote comesup in the HOC which is expressely against the churches teaching? By your reasoning no catholic could sit in the HOc or they should ignore there beliefs, better I feel for people to state clearly their beliefs, or lack of them ad be judged by the voters, people like Edward Leigh, Ian Paisley, John Gummer have been elected time and time again and they have always followed their churches teachings, should none of them be allowed to sit in the HOC?

09-06-2008, 10:41 AM	#19 (permalink)
The Bear Uber Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: East Anglia Posts: 2,178	Keep looking. For years I thought exactly the same until suddenly it all dropped into place. At first I thought that I was totally wrong. Then I realised that I wasn't. Islam has its place. It's place isn't here in our society nor in our time. For one thing democracy is anathema in Islam and for me that’s more than good enough reason to utterly reject it, for another the very name relates to submission, not submission to the alleged will of the God of the Jews and the Christians, but to the will of a duplicitous individual who claimed he had been given a series of messages. Funny how these messages changed and even contradicted themselves as his needs changed over time though. Islam is of the distant past. It can not be changed to bring it up to date despite what so many claim, it demands that where what we do today is at odds with Islam it is what we do that must be changed. Then of course there is the “know the tree by its fruit”. The sad part is that the fruit of Islam frequently explodes killing people. __________________ I am an old man. I have eaten much salt.

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08-06-2008, 06:35 PM	#13 (permalink)
Rye Spangle Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 37	Whilst native Brits fight eachover over 'religion' the enemies of Britain/N.Ireland make their advance.