Tory MP calls for proportional voting system in EU Elections to be abolished

Britannist · 26-05-2008, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikeuk

The present system is determined by the EU....

Yes - I wrote earlier in this thread that I was under the impression that the UK Government was forced to change the voting system used to elect UK members to the rival 'Parliament' in Brussels by the EU in the late 1990s.

But I am quite sure that Labour never thought that in introducing the switch to proportional (PR) list voting in UK EU Elections UKIP would win 3 seats in Brussels and increase that to 12 five years later.

Britannist · 26-05-2008, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikeuk

Roll on PR in the Westminster elections. It will man the Tories never lead another government again.

The europhiles will be hoping that proportional (PR) voting in a UK General Election would lead to the establishment of a pro-EU, pro-euro and pro-high immigration Labour-Liberal 'Democrat' coalition.

Of course, Labour and the europhile Liberal Dims thought that their coalition in the Scottish Parliament - elected by PR voting - would last for decades. As we know, it collapsed after 8 years in May 2007

.

a swansong 4 europe · 26-05-2008, 08:29 PM

Britannist, please, no matter how you wash it, it always remains the same colour; UKIP DID win seats in 2004, but since has FAILED to repeat any of those gains, never mind improving on them. So I maintain that the reason why there is talk of scrapping PR elections has more to with RECENT events, rather than those in distant history. Where do you think UKIP have been for the last 4 years apart from wallowing in a muddy swamp of electoral insignificance?

Like it or not, it is almost certainly the threat of the BNP in the UK, just like the Front National in France in the 80's, that is the reason Tories, now they can smell the taste of government, are talking of scrapping the present EU elections set-up. It has absolutely nothing to do with UKIP, UKIP is not a threat, and truly never has been, or they would have done the dirty on PR long ago.

I would like to think otherwise, but at least I can see through haze that masquerades as real politik.

Independence Now! · 29-05-2008, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikeuk

The present system is determined by the EU so this Blulabour Polack is farting against thunder.

Roll on PR in the Westminster elections. It will man the Tories never lead another government again.

Indeed it probably would. If I were Gordon Brown I would announce plans to either legislate for PR or at the very least the Alternative Vote system in the next two years. Camoron would soon have that self-satisfied, smug expression wiped-off his face then.

Independence Now! · 29-05-2008, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by a swansong 4 europe

Britannist, please, no matter how you wash it, it always remains the same colour; UKIP DID win seats in 2004, but since has FAILED to repeat any of those gains, never mind improving on them. So I maintain that the reason why there is talk of scrapping PR elections has more to with RECENT events, rather than those in distant history. Where do you think UKIP have been for the last 4 years apart from wallowing in a muddy swamp of electoral insignificance?

Like it or not, it is almost certainly the threat of the BNP in the UK, just like the Front National in France in the 80's, that is the reason Tories, now they can smell the taste of government, are talking of scrapping the present EU elections set-up. It has absolutely nothing to do with UKIP, UKIP is not a threat, and truly never has been, or they would have done the dirty on PR long ago.

I would like to think otherwise, but at least I can see through haze that masquerades as real politik.

I am convinced that is the reason. Certainly with regard to Westminster elections, the three-party troika of treason have a fear of introducing PR in case the people elect BNP candidates to shatter their PC and anti-British consensus.

Dissident Congress · 29-05-2008, 07:27 PM

You don't get it. The Tories are 100% in favour of FPTP and this is a central party policy where opposing it is considered anathema. Even the Monday Club stated that FPTP must be upheld and PR opposed.

I doubt a future Tory government could revert back to FPTP for the Euro elections, but they could abolish it for national elections such as the London Assembly or Scottish Parliament.

British-Conservatism · 29-05-2008, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Britannist

In a letter to the Daily Telegraph of 10.5.2008 Conservative MP Daniel Kawczynski called for an end of the use of proportional (PR) voting in EU Elections in the UK and in elections to the London Assembly.

If his proposal were implemented it would make it very difficult for parties other than the Labour, Conservative and Liberal 'Democrats' to win seats in the rival 'Parliament' in Brussels or on the London Assembly.

UKIP won two seats on the London Assembly in 2004 (which the party no longer holds) as well as 12 seats in the last EU 'Election'. The Green Party has two seats in Brussels and two on the London Assembly.

Mr. Kawczynski wrote “I have written to David Cameron stating that I would like to see the Conservative Party commit itself to abolishing PR for both the Greater London Authority and European Elections.” He added “When I speak to my constituents, I find that not one in 100 can tell who Nina Gill is. In fact she is the “local” Labour MEP.” Mr. Kawczynski said that the lack of knowledge over who she was not just because of “political disengagement” but because “the familiar link between community and representative has been broken.”

He also pointed out that if a member of the London Assembly elected from the London-wide proportional list stands down then s/he would be replaced by another off the list of candidates from the same political party with no By-Election – but that if a constituency member quits then a By-Election in the constituency of the member leaving would have to be held.

“First-past-the-post voting” is a system which “increases voter engagement and restores accountability” Mr. Kawczynski stated.

I bet he does.
Keep the small parties out and his pockets full.
Such an English name too.

Independence Now! · 29-05-2008, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dissident Congress

You don't get it. The Tories are 100% in favour of FPTP and this is a central party policy where opposing it is considered anathema. Even the Monday Club stated that FPTP must be upheld and PR opposed.

I doubt a future Tory government could revert back to FPTP for the Euro elections, but they could abolish it for national elections such as the London Assembly or Scottish Parliament.

If the so-called Conservative AND Unionist Party had any principles it would have boycotted the Welsh Assembly and the Scottish EU-controlled 'parliament' from the start let alone concern itself with the electoral system used for it.

Dissident Congress · 29-05-2008, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Independence Now!

If the so-called Conservative AND Unionist Party had any principles it would have boycotted the Welsh Assembly and the Scottish EU-controlled 'parliament' from the start let alone concern itself with the electoral system used for it.

The term Unionist means "we support Britain's membership of the EU" rather than the British Union.

Britannist · 30-05-2008, 01:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by a swansong 4 europe

Britannist, please, no matter how you wash it, it always remains the same colour; UKIP DID win seats in 2004, but since has FAILED to repeat any of those gains, never mind improving on them. It has absolutely nothing to do with UKIP, UKIP is not a threat, and truly never has been, or they would have done the dirty on PR long ago.

Thank you for your reply Swansong.

As I have written before here - the moment small parties started winning under proportional voting in national elections in France, The Late (Socialist Party) President Mitterrand changed the voting system back to something like the one we use here in the UK to make it more difficult for them. I just thought I would mention this again for those reading this who want proportional voting introduced at UK General Elections.

The moment UKIP started to win seats in the Commons under proportional voting the europhiles would change the system straight back to what we have now to try to reduce or end UKIP representation in the Commons. Consequently, the view of many will be that UKIP should aim to try to win seats in the House of Commons under whatever electoral system is used.

Regarding next year's EU Elections - the europhiles know full well that those elections offer the best chance of any of the proportional (PR) voting elections held in the UK for UKIP to win seats. The europhiles have tried to avoid all discussion of the EU in elections held in the UK since the big UKIP gains at the 2004 EU Election but cannot avoid discussing the EU issue, the hideous EU Constitution/Lisbon 'Treaty', the EU Constitution referendum which was promised by Labour but never held, sovereignty and 'europe' (all connected to the key policy area of UKIP which is the EU and withdrawal from it) in the election campaign for the 2009 EU Elections.

The europhiles will be on the defensive in the 2009 EU Elections and UKIP - which got four times more votes than of the other smaller parties in this months Crewe-Nantwich Parliamentary By-Election - will be campaigning to every voter on the UK mainland for the first time since 2004.

Incidentally, three months before the 1999 EU Elections (the first where PR voting was used), the europhiles were predicting UKIP would not win any seats. The party went on to win three seats.

Three months before the 2004 EU Elections the europhiles forecast that UKIP would lose its three seats in Brussels. UKIP held all three and gained nine more.

29-05-2008, 07:27 PM	#26 (permalink)
Dissident Congress Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 750	You don't get it. The Tories are 100% in favour of FPTP and this is a central party policy where opposing it is considered anathema. Even the Monday Club stated that FPTP must be upheld and PR opposed. I doubt a future Tory government could revert back to FPTP for the Euro elections, but they could abolish it for national elections such as the London Assembly or Scottish Parliament. __________________ Dissident Congress Promoting Populist Patriotism Our Nation - Our People - Our Heritage - Our Future

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26-05-2008, 08:29 PM	#23 (permalink)
a swansong 4 europe Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 411	Britannist, please, no matter how you wash it, it always remains the same colour; UKIP DID win seats in 2004, but since has FAILED to repeat any of those gains, never mind improving on them. So I maintain that the reason why there is talk of scrapping PR elections has more to with RECENT events, rather than those in distant history. Where do you think UKIP have been for the last 4 years apart from wallowing in a muddy swamp of electoral insignificance? Like it or not, it is almost certainly the threat of the BNP in the UK, just like the Front National in France in the 80's, that is the reason Tories, now they can smell the taste of government, are talking of scrapping the present EU elections set-up. It has absolutely nothing to do with UKIP, UKIP is not a threat, and truly never has been, or they would have done the dirty on PR long ago. I would like to think otherwise, but at least I can see through haze that masquerades as real politik.