BNP - Leadership Challenge

Ken · 19-05-2008, 03:42 PM

Do you have any links for that?

Independent Working Class · 19-05-2008, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken

Most of us think you are the legenday anti-Griffinite, Brummie 76.

Oh no you've rumbled me...not.

Ok, let me spell it out very clearly for all the Griffites here; just because a person hates Nick Griffin and his clique does not mean that he hates ether the political party (like UKIPers), current policy (like your Ebanks types) or its grass roots membership.

Dissident Congress: Just because I am INDEPENDENT (for the time being) and WORKING CLASS does not mean I am a member of some vile anti-British organisation.

British-Conservatism · 19-05-2008, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dissident Congress

Some people are living in a timewarp. Still ranting on about Nazis and the Holocaust whilst saying nothing about Islamophobia spouted by NG and his loyal henchmen.

Islam is not just a religion but an ideology and it's an idelogy that is very much against the nation state and nationalism.
Hence all Nationalist groups should oppose it.

Dissident Congress · 19-05-2008, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by British-Conservatism

Islam is not just a religion but an ideology and it's an idelogy that is very much against the nation state and nationalism.

Untrue. I have asked questions about the concept of the nation state with several knowledgeable Muslims to find out how it interacts with Islam. The answer is that Islam supports the concept of the nation state with its own peoples, language, culture, and identity. Any attempt to merge or combine nation states should only be done if there are minimal linguistic or cultural differences between them.

The fact that there are many Muslim dominated nations with their own languages, and cultures, and different types of food is a testimony to this. Outside of the Arabic speaking area there are no plans to dissolve borders and national governments to create some global Islamic state. Closer ties between Arabic speaking states - including a proposed single currency - is a recent development and are unlikely to be extended outside the Arabic speaking region. There is generally no free movement of people between Muslim dominated nations. Saudi Arabia has an almost zero immigration policy, and do you really think the governments and citizens of Syria or Morocco would allow a million Bangladeshi immigrants in simply on the grounds they are Muslims?

Just like with non-Muslim Europeans, internationalist and Globalist Muslims are largely confined to the intellectual chattering class. The difference is that they have much less influence in governments of Muslim dominated countries than non-Muslim internationalists have in governments of Europe.

Dissident Congress · 19-05-2008, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Independent Working Class

Dissident Congress: Just because I am INDEPENDENT (for the time being) and WORKING CLASS does not mean I am a member of some vile anti-British organisation.

I'm sorry if I've ruffled any feathers. It's just that your name can be easily confused with an organisation you have no involvement with.

British-Conservatism · 19-05-2008, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dissident Congress

Untrue. I have asked questions about the concept of the nation state with several knowledgeable Muslims to find out how it interacts with Islam. The answer is that Islam supports the concept of the nation state with its own peoples, language, culture, and identity. Any attempt to merge or combine nation states should only be done if there are minimal linguistic or cultural differences between them.

The fact that there are many Muslim dominated nations with their own languages, and cultures, and different types of food is a testimony to this. Outside of the Arabic speaking area there are no plans to dissolve borders and national governments to create some global Islamic state. Closer ties between Arabic speaking states - including a proposed single currency - is a recent development and are unlikely to be extended outside the Arabic speaking region. There is generally no free movement of people between Muslim dominated nations. Saudi Arabia has an almost zero immigration policy, and do you really think the governments and citizens of Syria or Morocco would allow a million Bangladeshi immigrants in simply on the grounds they are Muslims?

Just like with non-Muslim Europeans, internationalist and Globalist Muslims are largely confined to the intellectual chattering class. The difference is that they have much less influence in governments of Muslim dominated countries than non-Muslim internationalists have in governments of Europe.

Nationalism is a concept alien to Islam because it calls for unity based on family and tribalistic ties, whereas Islam binds people together on the `Aqeedah, that is belief in Allah (swt) and His Messenger (saaw). Islam calls for the ideological bond.
Grouping the Muslims on tribalistic lines is clearly forbidden. It is narrated by Abu Da'wud that the Messenger of Allah (saaw) said,

"He is not one us who calls for `Asabiyyah, (nationalism/tribalism) or who fights for `Asabiyyah or who dies for `Asabiyyah."

And in another Hadith, the Messenger of Allah (saaw) referring to nationalism, racism, and patriotism said:

"Leave it, it is rotten." [Muslim and Bukhari] and in the Hadith recorded in Mishkat al-Masabith, the Messenger of Allah (saaw) said,

"He who calls for `Asabiyyah is as if he bit his father's genitals"

Also, the Messenger of Allah (saaw) said, narrated by At-Tirmidhi and Abu Dawud,

"There are indeed people who boast of their dead ancestors; but in the sight of Allah they are more contemptible than the black beetle that rolls a piece of dung with its nose. Behold, Allah has removed from you the arrogance of the Time of Jahiliyyah (Ignorance) with its boast of ancestral glories. Man is but an Allah-fearing believer or an unfortunate sinner. All people are the children of Adam, and Adam was created out of dust."

Also, the Messenger of Allah (saaw) said,

"Undoubtedly Allah has removed from you the pride of arrogance of the age of Jahilliyah (ignorance) and the glorification of ancestors. Now people are of two kinds. Either believers who are aware or transgressors who do wrong. You are all the children of Adam and Adam was made of clay. People should give up their pride in nations because that is a coal from the coals of Hell-fire. If they do not give this up Allah (swt) will consider them lower than the lowly worm which pushes itself through Khara (dung)." [Abu Dawud and Tirmidhi]

Populist Lee · 19-05-2008, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Independent Working Class

Dissident Congress: Just because I am INDEPENDENT (for the time being) and WORKING CLASS does not mean I am a member of some vile anti-British organisation.

Seems my memory is better than DC's . . .

English Voice

British-Conservatism · 19-05-2008, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dissident Congress

Untrue. I have asked questions about the concept of the nation state with several knowledgeable Muslims to find out how it interacts with Islam. The answer is that Islam supports the concept of the nation state with its own peoples, language, culture, and identity. Any attempt to merge or combine nation states should only be done if there are minimal linguistic or cultural differences between them.

The fact that there are many Muslim dominated nations with their own languages, and cultures, and different types of food is a testimony to this. Outside of the Arabic speaking area there are no plans to dissolve borders and national governments to create some global Islamic state. Closer ties between Arabic speaking states - including a proposed single currency - is a recent development and are unlikely to be extended outside the Arabic speaking region. There is generally no free movement of people between Muslim dominated nations. Saudi Arabia has an almost zero immigration policy, and do you really think the governments and citizens of Syria or Morocco would allow a million Bangladeshi immigrants in simply on the grounds they are Muslims?

Just like with non-Muslim Europeans, internationalist and Globalist Muslims are largely confined to the intellectual chattering class. The difference is that they have much less influence in governments of Muslim dominated countries than non-Muslim internationalists have in governments of Europe.

There are over seven million migrants in Saudi Arabia from countries all around the world, including (including non-Muslims):Indian: 1.4 million, Bangladeshi: 1 million, Filipino: 950,000, Pakistani: 900,000, Egyptian: 900,000, Yemeni: 800,000, Indonesian: 500,000, Sri Lankan: 350,000, Sudanese: 250,000, Syrian: 100,000 and Turkish: 80,000.[38] There are around 100,000 Westerners in Saudi Arabia, most of whom live in compounds or gated communities.

It is very much a Internationalist Globalist religion.

Dissident Congress · 19-05-2008, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Populist Lee

Seems my memory is better than DC's . . .

English Voice

I remember this well but other people haven't spotted it yet. Information trickled back to DCHQ that a number of paid up members of the IWCA thought that one of their members was regularly posting on this forum.

Dissident Congress · 19-05-2008, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by British-Conservatism

There are over seven million migrants in Saudi Arabia from countries all around the world, including (including non-Muslims):Indian: 1.4 million, Bangladeshi: 1 million, Filipino: 950,000, Pakistani: 900,000, Egyptian: 900,000, Yemeni: 800,000, Indonesian: 500,000, Sri Lankan: 350,000, Sudanese: 250,000, Syrian: 100,000 and Turkish: 80,000.[38] There are around 100,000 Westerners in Saudi Arabia, most of whom live in compounds or gated communities.

They happen to be expat workers who are given the boot when their contracts finish or if they get up to mischief. Very very few of these people will ever be given Saudi citizenship and neither will their children who are born in the country. This is in stark contrast to Europe.

Quote:

It is very much a Internationalist Globalist religion.

So is Catholic Christianity. The Catholic religion was intended to be a standardised international version of Christianity from the outset. For centuries on end after the Protestant reformation, many English people refused to accept that a Catholic could ever be a true Englishman because his loyalty was towards the Pope and the international Catholic community rather than the monarch and country. Nowadays no sane nationalist movement in (mainland) Britain would ever exclude Catholics or consider them as traitors to the nation because of the internationalist globalist nature of the religion.

A similar situation also applies to other religions such as Judaism and Buddhism.

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19-05-2008, 03:42 PM	#181 (permalink)
Ken Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 215	Do you have any links for that?