Question Should income taxes be abolished?

BonnieDundee · 05-05-2008, 05:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smidgey

Yes, which was why I made clear that is had problems (in my view any tax will), but I consider it to be the so-called 'least bad'. Furthermore, in a later post in this thread you go on to talk about exceptions - in the society I would envision, such things as staples (food, fuel, etc) would certainly be considered for exemption.

The least bad is clearly the land value tax because that is not a tax of labour at all but one that is already paid to a landlord anyway.

Quote:

By equal access do you mean before or after it has been appropriated? I could never support the after, but the before, sure. However, I think most (all?) of such land in the UK has been appropriated (and certainly not justly in many cases). I don't understand, however, what you mean by this is a tax that is collected anyway.

Well your access doesn't have to be to actual land, the LVT makes up for lack of access. But I just can't see what justification can give perpetual ownership of land, which is not manmade, to anyone. It is absurd and most classical liberals seemed to realise this.

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Either I am being extremely obtuse or you have explained this poorly.

Could you please rephrase this, since I'm not understanding the sentence structure at all.

The land value tax is a tax on ground rent only. That means the value of unimproved land given to it by nature and society. Therefore the LVT does not actually tax any labour products. It is the only tax to do that and perhaps the word tax is even incorrect in its case. It can be levied several ways. But the most common idea is simply that a charge for the estimated ground rent is made when any income is realised.

This also allows all individual's equal access to land by giving them compensation for it if they don't have access because any value an individual or organisation could realise through simple ownership of unimproved land is taken away and the tax could simply be distributed as a citizen's bonus to those in the local community.

The tax will also lower land values because speculation in unimproved land is basically removed and easier access for businesses and individuals will increase wages and decrease interest rates.

The land value tax, which isn't really a tax at all, if levied not as it is today on consumers and workers for the benefit of landlords, but on those who gain through ground rent is almost a wonder tax.

Quote:

I already made that point. Consumers, the largest block of society, will be hit by any tax no matter its form (except in property tax they will be called property owners, not consumers, and so forth).

The LVT is a collection on ground rent, it is not created by individuals and is in fact being levied mainly on consumers today, if it was collected by the gov't it would actually lessen the burden on society.

BonnieDundee · 05-05-2008, 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ea of Dune

Bonnie> This is a good topic and one I looke forward to debating

!

I agree with smidgey and would like to go for a sales tax as well. I'd abolish income tax, corporate tax, VAT and national insurance for a start.
With regards to the sale tax, the proposed US system which is currently a bill being debated by congress proposes a prebate to all registered citizens to help with poverty issues mentioned by Bonnie Dundee.
Since the idea of the FairTax system is that all goods and everyone should be charged 22% even basic neccessities should be charged at this rate. But a prebate would be given (I believe for a family of 4 it was something like $700 a month) which would mean the poorer members of society would not be hit by the hike in sales tax on bread for example.
The side effect of the FairTax system would be to stimiulate the economy and allow people to pay tax when they choose through their purchases. If the government taxed me less and left me with mroe money to spend would I? Yes I'd save some for my future but I'd also probably go out and buy that ferrari if I could now afford to

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We also might see Chavs finally paying something into the system when tax revenues from Burberry products go through the roof

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I think this system could work really well, personally I'd like to see a small preportion of the prebate used to fund the NHS (but with options given to those who wish to go private without penalising them) one of the few "state" services I think if run properly would be highly beneficial.

Ea of dune

If it has exemptions or a prebate was given then that would stop the sales tax being regressive in nature and there might be benefits over an income tax like less bureaucracy but it is still a tax on labour just at a different point to the income tax and it obviously can be forced on to consumers in the same way.

In my opinion the land value tax is certainly better as it does not tax labour but ground rent which is created by society and nature. It also basically removes speculation and profiteering in unimproved land and therefore will help land be used better, will make land cheaper and increase wages and decrease interest rates.

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