John Connor

......Heh.

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John Connor

Yep, agreed.
We could abolish council tax immediately and the revenue required for local services could be diverted from central funding by not paying all those quangos. And we'd still have plenty of cash left for other things.

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There are three types of people in this world: Libertarians, fascists and those who haven't been paying attention.
If you're taking notice of the environmental rants of a man who claims to have invented the Internet, exactly how low is your IQ?
By definition, 49.9999% of the population are of below average intelligence. Hence, a NuLabour government. Three times.

Users on ignore list: Akria, Besoeker, Clippo, david H, Ian C.

BonnieDundee

But poor people spend more of their budget, it is regressive in that sense and generally considered so.


Well aside from the fact that everyone deserves equal access to land as even Locke noted this is a tax that is collected anyway. It is simply value created by nature and society which is collected by the landlord's who did not create now, they are taxing us. The LVT simply removes this unearned income from them by taxing only ground rent ie the value of unimproved land created by society and nature and allowing society to use it.

I'd say it takes as much bureaucracy as some other forms of taxation. It generally passes the burden on the consumer.

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BonnieDundee

I don't agree, it is the same thing, it taxes labour just at a different point, except it is more regressive. In my under-graduate economics we were taught that sales taxes, unless they have exemptions, are regressive. And I would concur with this conclusion as the poor pay tend to spend more of their income immediately.

I favour the LVT because it is a tax on the unimproved value of land and therefore not on anyone's labour but is the collection of what society and nature created and is a tax which must be paid anyway and better society gets it and lowers other taxes than a landlord gets it though he created little of it. I also favour it because I believe we all should have equal access to land and that eternal ownership of the earth by a few due to first-come-first-serve is wrong. But I also don't want the gov't to own the land and this does not mean it does. It also decreases the price of land, increases wages and decreases interest.

I then favour tariffs to collect any other needed revenue not because of protectionism but because it is better than domestic income, capital and sales taxes, as many free trade thinkers themselves have echoed.

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"It is poor civic hygiene to install technologies that could someday facilitate a police state."
-Bruce Schneier

How to Overthrow the System: brew your own beer; kick in your TV; build your own cabin and p*ss off front porch whenever you bloody well feel like it.
Edward Abbey

Leopold Kohr.

John Connor

And pray tell, which side of the political spectrum was your professor on?

This assumes that the rich aren't buying Ferraris and Bollinger.

No. While you were peeing your uni grant up the wall I was working 18 hour days and saving. Therefore, I deserve more access to my land than you do.

What are you, a commie or something?

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There are three types of people in this world: Libertarians, fascists and those who haven't been paying attention.
If you're taking notice of the environmental rants of a man who claims to have invented the Internet, exactly how low is your IQ?
By definition, 49.9999% of the population are of below average intelligence. Hence, a NuLabour government. Three times.

Users on ignore list: Akria, Besoeker, Clippo, david H, Ian C.

g hall

I point to quote one below with the caveat of taxes least

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Smidgey

Yes, which was why I made clear that is had problems (in my view any tax will), but I consider it to be the so-called 'least bad'. Furthermore, in a later post in this thread you go on to talk about exceptions - in the society I would envision, such things as staples (food, fuel, etc) would certainly be considered for exemption.

The most important thing would be to lower prices and I see one of the best ways of doing this would be through reducing taxes on fuels.

By equal access do you mean before or after it has been appropriated? I could never support the after, but the before, sure. However, I think most (all?) of such land in the UK has been appropriated (and certainly not justly in many cases). I don't understand, however, what you mean by this is a tax that is collected anyway.

Either I am being extremely obtuse or you have explained this poorly.

Could you please rephrase this, since I'm not understanding the sentence structure at all.

That could be argued for. Why do you say so?

[/quote]It generally passes the burden on the consumer.[/quote]

I already made that point. Consumers, the largest block of society, will be hit by any tax no matter its form (except in property tax they will be called property owners, not consumers, and so forth).

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tito

Let us note the Adam Smith Institutes findings. If we return government expenditure to it's levels in 2001, we could abolish the income tax with some cash to spare.

Can anyone tell me something important the government does now that it didn't do in 2001?

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Ea of Dune

Bonnie> This is a good topic and one I looke forward to debating !

I agree with smidgey and would like to go for a sales tax as well. I'd abolish income tax, corporate tax, VAT and national insurance for a start.
With regards to the sale tax, the proposed US system which is currently a bill being debated by congress proposes a prebate to all registered citizens to help with poverty issues mentioned by Bonnie Dundee.
Since the idea of the FairTax system is that all goods and everyone should be charged 22% even basic neccessities should be charged at this rate. But a prebate would be given (I believe for a family of 4 it was something like $700 a month) which would mean the poorer members of society would not be hit by the hike in sales tax on bread for example.
The side effect of the FairTax system would be to stimiulate the economy and allow people to pay tax when they choose through their purchases. If the government taxed me less and left me with mroe money to spend would I? Yes I'd save some for my future but I'd also probably go out and buy that ferrari if I could now afford to .
We also might see Chavs finally paying something into the system when tax revenues from Burberry products go through the roof .
I think this system could work really well, personally I'd like to see a small preportion of the prebate used to fund the NHS (but with options given to those who wish to go private without penalising them) one of the few "state" services I think if run properly would be highly beneficial.

Ea of dune

BonnieDundee

No idea. The textbook was unlikely to be leftwing.


The rich tend to save alot more than the poor.

What are you a fascist or something?

"God gave the world to men in common....He that leaves as much [land] for another to make use of does as good as take nothing at all."
John Locke.

I think it is clear that you need to do a bit of reading. Land is not the product of labour, it is guarded and allowed to be owned by society, if you wish to own you should abide by society's rules.

__________________
"It is poor civic hygiene to install technologies that could someday facilitate a police state."
-Bruce Schneier

How to Overthrow the System: brew your own beer; kick in your TV; build your own cabin and p*ss off front porch whenever you bloody well feel like it.
Edward Abbey

Leopold Kohr.