List your parties in order of preference.

For_England · 01-05-2008, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smidgey

By the way, you are quick to denounce other theories of property, but I have yet to see you explain what you own theory of property is.

In fact, much of your political beliefs are rather vague to me. I know that you are a decentralist, but that could mean anything - both libertarians and the BNP could be considered decentralist too.

What is your conception of property rights, what is the Lockean conception, and what do you believe to be the American conception (Americans have tunnell vision centered around their large egos, so your comments so far are understandable).

Smidgey · 01-05-2008, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by For_England

What is your conception of property rights, what is the Lockean conception, and what do you believe to be the American conception (Americans have tunnell vision centered around their large egos, so your comments so far are understandable).

I have already given all of these things in other threads, which is why my question was specifically targetted at BonnieDundee - we have discussed these things before.

As the American conception, I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

For_England · 01-05-2008, 08:06 PM

well up yours too

Ea of Dune · 01-05-2008, 08:51 PM

I have to say the nearest to hitting my idea of how I would like the see the country run, was the suggestions made by Dr Sean Gabb in Culture Wars.
A blending of English Nationalist leaning conservative thought with Libetarianism.

Ea of dune

BonnieDundee · 02-05-2008, 01:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smidgey

I think you've just created a huge straw man.

I don't.

Quote:

I have yet to come across a single libertarian that claims his position is a panacea and will create some kind of golden utopia.

That is not what I said, it I'm afraid you with the strawman. I simply claimed they pretty much solve all political, economic and social problems with it. And they do.

Quote:

As for Locke, in another thread you said that you were fed up of people making up the opinion of the dead for them. It seems you might be doing that just here. The Lockean proviso is extremely well defined in his Two Treatises on Government. As for Nozick's revision of it, it keeps true to the original proviso, whilst removing the problems (i.e. that someone could own the whole sea and that the first appropriation would in unjust). I don't see how this is a rightwing definition of the Lockean proviso since the conclusion that Locke wanted was exactly the same - just the way he got there was problematic.

There are many different interpretations of Locke depending on how serious you take the provisos about their being enough of natural resources to go around for any to be claimed without compensation. But that wasn't really the point, I was just talking about the general American style libertarian interpretation.

BonnieDundee · 02-05-2008, 01:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smidgey

By the way, you are quick to denounce other theories of property, but I have yet to see you explain what you own theory of property is.

In fact, much of your political beliefs are rather vague to me. I know that you are a decentralist, but that could mean anything - both libertarians and the BNP could be considered decentralist too.

I'm a libertarian and decentralist not just a decentralist. I believe in maximising individual liberty which is the broad definition of libertarian even if I'm not the American style nor in a practical sense an anarchist(but I read, admire and am influenced by both groups.).

I'm vague because I'm still unsure and still in the process of learning about all different kinds of decentralism and libertarianism and try to integrate insights from the different branches of libertarianism. Also I'm vague because I don't think there is often just one solution that fits all. Hence I don't denouce your theory of property, I just don't think it is more natural than the others nor is it always the best one in all contexts.

BonnieDundee · 02-05-2008, 01:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by For_England

What is your conception of property rights, what is the Lockean conception, and what do you believe to be the American conception (Americans have tunnell vision centered around their large egos, so your comments so far are understandable).

Locke's ideas:

Locke's Political Philosophy (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)

The American bit is just because I differentiate between the new American use of the word libertarian to mean people like Smidgey which has arose since the 60s, taken over America and seems to be spreading, and other older, non-American meanings of the word. Such as just wanting to maximise individual liberty such as civil libertarians and its oldest meaning which was for leftwing anarchists. I think it is too good a word to be monopolised by the one branch. I'm a libertarian but that doesn't necessarily make me too similar to Milton Friedman for instance.

For_England · 02-05-2008, 01:56 AM

Thanks! I'll have a read of that.

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01-05-2008, 08:06 PM	#123 (permalink)
For_England Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 1,664	well up yours too

01-05-2008, 08:51 PM	#124 (permalink)
Ea of Dune Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Hell Posts: 886	I have to say the nearest to hitting my idea of how I would like the see the country run, was the suggestions made by Dr Sean Gabb in Culture Wars. A blending of English Nationalist leaning conservative thought with Libetarianism. Ea of dune

02-05-2008, 01:56 AM	#128 (permalink)
For_England Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 1,664	Thanks! I'll have a read of that.