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Old 21-04-2008, 11:12 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Edmund Burke wrote
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing".

The perception by many non-muslims in this country is that 'good' muslims will not turn on the 'evil' ones because being a muslim is more important than being British.
Some of the community leaders still hold quite a lot of power in their mosques and local areas. It is noticeable that many of the people convicted of vote fraud in areas like Birmingham, Slough etc have been muslim councillors/candidates.
The area where I used to live in the West Mids has a very high muslim population. And as Tom says there is not that much trouble between muslim and non-muslim. But, the main reason for that is that there is very little contact between the two communities. The muslims are ghettoising themselves. Many of the schools in the area are 80%+ muslim, after school the kids go to mosque school for 3 hours, there is very little contact with non-muslims even for the kids. More muslim faith schools are opening, this will lead to even less contact.
As one white teenager frighteningly explained a few weeks ago
" I don't mind the muslims having their own ghetto, because when the time comes to take our town back we will know where to find them".
At the same club another one told me
"It's bad enough living next to a **** without living next to Pakistan". He also said that he wished that,
"the BNP would stand in this town, but they won't because there aren't enough white people left".

To hear that reasoning from people who have lived through the changes in their community, and don't like them is bad enough. But to hear that kind of talk from 15 year olds who have lived next to muslims all of their life I find threatening, worrying and very sad.
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Old 22-04-2008, 05:05 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Tom Wilde View Post
Then the answer is to improve people's understanding of Islam so that they can see the vast ideological gulf separating Islamic nationalist terrorists from other Muslims. This may not be such a good short-term vote winner as the BNP scare tactic of smearing all Muslims as being the same - but it is a lot more honest.
I have previously stated that most of the opponents of Islam who support the BNP know next to nothing about Islam - and do not want to learn anything about Islam - but the fact is, they hate it and want it out of Britain.

There is an old saying that you can take a horse to water but you can't make it drink. If the British people do not want to know anything about Islam other than anything to do with it being a thoroughly evil cult, then how do you propose to change this? Who exactly do you expect to teach Islam to the masses?

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So you think we should get into a competition with the BNP to see who can lie most outrageously about Muslims? I don't think so.
I don't want any lies. I only want the truth.

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I assume by ethnic Muslims you mean ones belonging to ethnic minorities?
Yes, as opposed to those of British or European bloodlines.

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I have read some bits of it, but not all. (Haven't read the entire Bible either. Who has the time?)
Some members of the BNP have put in the time and effort to read the Koran. Why haven't you?

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I once knew a Muslim woman who did an academic study on the status of women in Islam. Her conclusion was that the Koran is pretty forward looking on women's equality, and it was misunderstandings of the Koran by the tribes in 7th century Arabia which are to blame. They read into the Koran all the various repressive attitudes they already had previously about the place of women, what they could and couldn't do, what they should wear, etc etc. Much of which 'illiberal stuff' then became incorporated in sharia law. She gave me various examples. Anyway, this is handy because the Koran is fixed and unchangeable (being supposedly the direct words of God) but the interpretations of God's will are agreed to be human inventions and can be changed by scholarship and argument. Which is what is gradually happening. So I would say that as a liberal I have nothing against Islam itself but that I greatly prefer some interpretations of Islam over others.
Then why isn't this woman more outspoken against the fundamentalist imams and Islamic community leaders in Britain?
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Old 23-04-2008, 04:38 PM   #23 (permalink)
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To hear that reasoning from people who have lived through the changes in their community, and don't like them is bad enough. But to hear that kind of talk from 15 year olds who have lived next to muslims all of their life I find threatening, worrying and very sad.
The simple explanation is a culture clash. The culture and lifestyle of most white British non-Muslim 15 year olds is very different to the culture and lifestyle of most ethnic Muslim 15 year olds.

When there are large numbers of ethnic Muslim teenagers in a town then effectively it ends up as two parallel communities that become hostile towards each other.
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Old 24-04-2008, 09:08 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Bulter dont forget we are waiting for an answer, let us laugh at you little marxist.
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Old 24-04-2008, 11:26 PM   #25 (permalink)
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I also expect Tom Wilde to come forward and answer my questions.
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Old 25-04-2008, 08:14 AM   #26 (permalink)
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The simple explanation is a culture clash. The culture and lifestyle of most white British non-Muslim 15 year olds is very different to the culture and lifestyle of most ethnic Muslim 15 year olds.

When there are large numbers of ethnic Muslim teenagers in a town then effectively it ends up as two parallel communities that become hostile towards each other.
It’s far more than just culture, it’s about perception of the world.

We see the world in an altogether different way than a Muslim does. Consequently many of our values are radically different.

WE love life, they love death, in fact Islam could be described as being a death cult and with good justification.

Another aspect of Islam is the rejection of integration beyond the trivial. A Muslim is absolutely certain that the morality of Islam it is the BEST morality compared to all others. He knows this because his holy book tells him so.

A Muslim doesn’t perceive the world and it’s nations as we do, to a Muslim there is the nation that is Islam, the nation that is in conflict with itself and with Islam, and a small nation that is in transition to becoming Islam.

Our perception of the world comprising of many sovereign nations is anathema to him, he sees what we see as nations as little more than tribes, in part that is why he has such disregard for our borders and loyalties.

Earlier someone wrote about reading the Koran. Even THAT shows the massive ignorance that most people have about Islam.

You don’t READ the Koran, you’re supposed to memorise it and relate what you meet in everyday life with the verses that relate to such events keeping at all times the injunction to promote the progress and advancement of Islam into areas into which it has not yet infected.

There is a very great deal of difference between Ali in the corner shop and The Man on the Clapham Omnibus.

The environment that New Labour’s insane multicultural experiment has created is now ensuring that rather than Ali (or if not him his kids) jumping on that bus, Ali will expand his business and the bus route will never go near the corners that Ali’s shops now are increasingly to be found on.
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Old 25-04-2008, 08:16 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Bulter dont forget we are waiting for an answer, let us laugh at you little marxist.
What do YOU think a Marxist is?

Do tell!

(In your own words of course!)
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Old 25-04-2008, 09:22 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Bulter dont forget we are waiting for an answer, let us laugh at you little marxist.
I don't know why anyone is expecting this slug (I'd call him/her a troll but wouldn't want to offend any real trolls..) to answer any questions. Everyone knows this isn't Searchlights method. It wouldn't surprise me to learn it was Gable himself making the posts.
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Old 25-04-2008, 05:44 PM   #29 (permalink)
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What do YOU think a Marxist is?

Do tell!

(In your own words of course!)
Perhaps a person who is pro-European, Socialistic, wants to ban anti-EU parties, doesn’t accept racial difference, a totalitarian.
I could go on.
But that describes you doesn’t it Bear.
Im sure you’re the whitey in the Mandela clip I posted.
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Old 26-04-2008, 07:54 AM   #30 (permalink)
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Perhaps a person who is pro-European, Socialistic, wants to ban anti-EU parties, doesn’t accept racial difference, a totalitarian.
I could go on.
But that describes you doesn’t it Bear.
Im sure you’re the whitey in the Mandela clip I posted.
With the exception of “totalistic” that’s nothing like Marxism.

Two points I would pick up on.

Firstly, I don’t deny racial difference. It is patently obvious that there are differences between the different races of people, but those differences should never interfere with treating all races of people equally with the emphasis on people and not race.

Next I don’t like socialism but that doesn’t mean that society shouldn’t operate in the interests of all of its members and that the less able or dysfunctional should be supported and not simply left to their fate. Such is not socialism, it’s simply decent humanity.

For what it’s worth here’s my (in a nutshell) take on Marxism.

Marxism is above all else about conflict between those who work and those for whom they work. Out of this comes the proposition that workers are exploited by capitalists.

In my opinion (IMO) this is a theory that then trips up a great deal that Marxism then proposes such as the desirability fo public ownership over private ownership because even under public ownership there are still the “Bosses” and the workers.

Marx also proposed that workers only get paid the minimum for their efforts and that their efforts are the only true possession that the workers have.

IMO that may have been true way back in the day but since the middle of the 20th Century in the west that certainly isn’t so.

Or rather is wasn’t so until New Labour came along and manipulated peoples wages by taxes that went far beyond paying for what the average person took from the state and became a redistribution of wages to the less well off.

(IMO people haven’t caught on to what Brown did in this respect, they simply see a massive rise in taxes and not what is behind it.)

Marx was a revolutionary (No sh-t Sherlock! Did I hear?) who proposed a revolution with the intent of establishing a state in which the rule was dictatorial by representatives of the proletariat forcibly ruled especially the “non-proles”.

And a whole lot more besides not least the consequences of those, but IMO those are the key dimensions of Marxism

OK! I’ve “run a flag up a pole” anyone want to “salute it”? (LOL!)
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