Britannist

When we get out of the EU the very first thing we should do is sue them for damages (i.e. gigantic trading deficit with the UK to their advantage; destruction of the UK fishing fleet by the EU and 34 years of being ripped off by paying in money to the EU for only a fraction of it back).

Smidgey

They wont pay up.

My big fear is EU repercussions should we attempt to leave. If we do leave smoothly, it would probably be best to quit whilst we're ahead don't you think?

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Britannist

Do you mean some sort of trade sanctions from the EU or high tariffs on UK exports to the EU as a vindictive punishment by the EU for us leaving it?

If the EU tried that the UK Government would immediately take the EU to the World Trade Organisation (WTO) for the EU breaking WTO rules (the UK will regain our membership as one of the most important members of that once we leave the EU).

The EU needs the UK market far more than we need theirs - they would not be in any position to penalise us for leaving the EU. The EU trades with many nations outside the EU and has bilateral trade agreements with a number of countries around the world. Having signed such agreements with those nations the EU cannot then refuse to trade with the UK if we quit the EU - manufacturers in EU nations are desperate to export to the UK (they sell us twice as much as we export to them).

On 23.2.2000 europhile 'Tony' Blair (when he was Prime Minister) said "Of course, Britain could survive outside the EU... We could probably get access to the single market as Norway and Switzerland do.” Blair used the world "probably". There would be no "probably" about it: the EU nations would be frantically begging us to let them carry on exporting into the UK once we had regained our sovereignty and quit the EU.

Little Englander (sour)

Bonnie Dundee.
"the Union is fine"
My ****.
The Union(Ha Ha) is fine for Scotland, Wales and N. Ireland.

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Little Englander (bigoted)

HighlandFP

I suspect most of the posters here are what 'The Bear' would call wooly headed nig nogs.
People whose parentage is suspect and who come from warm countries south of Watford. i suspect The Bear is of West Indian parentage [nothing wrong with that] and it gives her and other incomers a certain pride to come into this British forum and play at being British.

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EU = Ein Volk ~ Ein Reich.

BonnieDundee

It was friendly, no need to be hostile. I'm part English myself anyway, not to mention I have a mum who was born in Cornwall, although half her family are Scottish.

You can't trust those things, particularly to measure intensity of feeling.
If you asked me whether I wanted world peace I'd say yes.

None of those polls measure intensity of feelings however. It is like Scottish independence, ideally we'd like, ask us in a poll whether we ideally want an independent Scotland and most would say yes but we're not overly worried right now. The point is to make people really want a devolved England, but without inciting silly jingoistic patriotism and racial bigotry.

I left the UK 9 months ago.

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"It is poor civic hygiene to install technologies that could someday facilitate a police state."
-Bruce Schneier

How to Overthrow the System: brew your own beer; kick in your TV; build your own cabin and p*ss off front porch whenever you bloody well feel like it.
Edward Abbey

Leopold Kohr.

Britannist

You still do not understand that the people of England want an English Parliament.

And when you say you left the UK 9 months ago I assume you left Scotland and not England. Or put it another way - you know that the people of England want an English Parliament but do not seem to be comfortable with that fact.

You are full of excuses about opinion poll results but have quoted from them yourself before now. That is when they accord with your own views.

You give the impression of being quite happy for your homeland of Scotland to have a Parliament within the UK but not for England to have one.

Britannist

You are yet again comparing two different things.

Independence and devolution are two different things.

I am quite sure that you either voted for devolution in Scotland in 1999 or that you did not vote in the referendum at all. From what you have written in your other postings to this forum the one thing it seems that the one thing you probably did not do is vote against devolution for Scotland.

If devolution is good enough for Scotland then it is good enough for England too. Except for those trying to hold England down (i.e. Brown, Falconer, Darling, Alexander, Blair etc.)

This is not about Scottish independence and English devolution (quote above).

This is about English devolution to match Scottish devolution within the Union of the UK.

You are bringing up the issue of Scottish independence to divert discussion off English devolution.

English devolution (an English Parliament) is backed by a clear majority according to the opinion polls.

Your original claim was that you did not think that support for an English Parliament (English devolution) had gone up over the last nine months and the figures I have given clearly show that it has and that you are wrong.

Britannist

You appear to be searching desperately for excuses to avoid the glaringly obvious fact that the people of England want their own Parliament. Don't you want the people of England to have a Parliament to match the one your homeland of Scotland has? A Scottish Parliament you probably voted for and almost certainly support now.

Opinion polls in the years before the Scottish referendum on devolution showed that about 70% wanted devolution - a Scottish Parliament.

Exactly the same number as in one of the most recent polls I quote in this thread about support in England for an English Parliament.

The opinion polls in Scotland proved to be correct - and the opinion poll results on support for an English Parliament are correct.

Britannist

They already do.

And if they don't get it support in England for the Union of the UK will fall (already over 11 million people in England want their country out of the UK).

Support in England for English control over a larger part of England's internal affairs is at the same level now as was support in Scotland for Scottish control over a large part of Scotland's internal affairs in the years before the Scottish devolution referendum.

The way to retain support in England for the Union with Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland is to get equality for England with Scotland within the UK by establishing an English Parliament.

70% in England think that Scottish constituency MPs should not vote on English legislation before the House of Commons, a poll for the National Centre For Social Research found in March 2008 (in other words 70% want votes on English matters in the Common restricted to English constituency MPs - thus creating English devolution and a de facto English Parliament).

Several well known supporters of the Campaign For An English Parliament have some Scottish ancestry.