British-Conservatism

Jsut because anti-white racial discrimination might exist in these countries dosnt mean we shouled have it here too.

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The Bear

Then you see with flawed vision.

Positive action to ensure that those people with ability are not discriminated against on the basis of race is not the same as discrimination against anyone. When done correctly it actually removes racial discrimination that would otherwise exist.

Where it goes wrong is when it is used by some numpty who sees nothing beyond meeting a set of targets produced by some other numpty who doesn’t realise that setting targets must include provision for the application of common sense.

For example it would be entirely right to expect that a community with an 80% black population to have around an 80% police service and so to set that as a target would be right and proper. To do the same where a community has a 5% black population would be stupid.

Where instructionalised racism is present it must be rooted out entirely, and if affirmative action is what is needed then it must be applied.

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I am an old man. I have eaten much salt.

British-Conservatism

Like I said you support anti-white racial discrimination.

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The Bear

Read what I wrote, not what you want to read.

This time at least TRY to understand.

Let me give you a pointer as your bigotry and racist prejudice seems to be preventing you from “getting off the starting blocks” with this.

Affirmative action for a minority is NOT the same as discriminatory action against a majority.

It is about ensuring an appropriate representation of minority populations in line with the demographics.

__________________
I am an old man. I have eaten much salt.

British-Conservatism

It's about mass discrimination against White people and you support that end of story.
Your a racist not I.

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The Bear

So on that basis it's being racist to take steps to address institutionalised racism?

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I am an old man. I have eaten much salt.

Northumbrian

Wrong. There is no difference between positive discrimination and negative discrimination.

Plus why should white people be discriminated against now for the racism of an earlier generation? Two wrongs don't make a right.

The Bear

In the event of a case where when all other factors are equal if the representation of an ethnic group in a public service does not equate with the percentage of the population that person’s ethnicity should become a factor in deciding to appoint them to a vacancy.

If, on the other hand, the decision to appoint is based simply to make up the right mix and the person decided upon is not the best candidate, then that is when it gets to be wrong.

Plus why should white people be discriminated against now for the racism of an earlier generation? Two wrongs don't make a right.

This is not a question of anyone being discriminated against if the decision is based on equal merit and assuring the appropriate ethnic mix in a job. As for discrimination by earlier generations, if such had not been the case then such affirmative action to correct any hangover would not be needed.

Done correctly affirmative action in recruitment and placement of people in jobs is absolutely the right thing to do to continue to promote the health and moral multiethnic society that any right thinking person wants.

Done incorrectly, and especially when it’s just to get the “tick in the box” irrespective of the person being the best candidate for a job it is absolutely the wrong thing to do.

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I am an old man. I have eaten much salt.

Northumbrian

But you're assuming that ethnic minorities apply for these jobs at the same per-head ratio as the white population.

To use a crude example, Bangladeshis make up a high percentage of staff in Indian restaurants. Highly likely then, that a smaller % out of the Bangladeshi population would apply for the police force, as opposed to the % out of the white population.

Therefore, a Bangladeshi applying to join the police force would have more chance than their white counterpart, using your system. Doesn't seem fair at all.

The Bear

The problems come in not with the principle of affirmative action, but with the way that it is abused by people who want to get the “tick in the box” as regards statistics, things that this government glorify as they provide excuses when things are going wrong.

Take your (good) example of a Bangladeshi applying to join a district police service having more chance of being appointed to the job being applied for than a non Bangladeshi person.

If operated correctly the ONLY time that would come into play would be where both candidates were equally qualified for the job, and where the present representation of people with that ethnicity in the particular police service was disproportionately represented in the particular police service relative to the district.

Nothing at all wrong with that.

__________________
I am an old man. I have eaten much salt.