Why Libertarianism is wrong

British-Conservatism · 13-04-2008, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smidgey

I wouldn't be so sure. Take your example of Switzerland, it has a socialist welfare state just like us. Not to mention that its economy has suffered a few blips recently and has some of the lowest house ownership rates in the Western world. Its unemployment has been rising recently too. Furthermore American states have votes on specific bills quite frequently, yet we do not see the conservatism that you yearn for.

Switzerland, althought freer than our own country, is still too socialistic and left wing.

Switzerlands main problem now it that of immigration.
Hence what you would see as the Far Right is now on around 27% of the vote in Switzerland.

Geoffrey Collier · 13-04-2008, 12:30 PM

Sorry, libetarian, can't see half the time.

British-Conservatism · 13-04-2008, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geoffrey Collier

British Conservatism: A very intelligent posting. It was a sad day when a senior UKIP member was touting for a Libitarian to become one of our MEP candidates: (soft on possessing child porn soft on possessing bomb-making material). Who was this individual anyway, who did the inviting? Apparently he was only engaged in polite conversation. You couldn't make it up!

Tito. How many of our allies in W.W.2 has conscript armies? Fighting the most developed industrial-military machine the world had ever seen, you deem the armies of the victorious powers, not to have been very effective!
Having rejected reality, are you now formulating political theory of the absurd?

Indeed without conscription the USSR would have been defeated by the Nazis and the war lost.
In world war 1 conscription was vital in repeling the last German offensive which could have seen the France defeated.

Geoffrey Collier · 13-04-2008, 12:32 PM

Still managed to leave a 'r' out; most frustrating poor eye-sight.

jgrabham · 13-04-2008, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by British-Conservatism

Indeed without conscription the USSR would have been defeated by the Nazis and the war lost.

Go watch/read "Enemy at the Gates", and come back and support USSR conscription in the second world war.

Smidgey · 13-04-2008, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by British-Conservatism

The people want a welfare state infact it was seen by many Conservatives up to the era of Thatcher and her Gladstonian Liberalism as a way of creating a more united society.
Which up to that time it very much did.

Britain was pretty united before we had a welfare state. In fact, so were many countries - consider the USA for the first one hundred years of the republic (which was actually broken apart by an overbearing state, suprisingly).

As for 'the people' wanting something, just because the majority believe something to be true doesn't make it so. The majority in the country believe Christianity to be so, the majority in Iraq believe it to be Islam. They cannot both be right.

Smidgey · 13-04-2008, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by British-Conservatism

Switzerlands main problem now it that of immigration.
Hence what you would see as the Far Right is now on around 27% of the vote in Switzerland.

Not the main issue, but one of them for sure.

However, it only becomes an issue if people make it one and there are several factors involved, it is not simply black and white.

Smidgey · 13-04-2008, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geoffrey Collier

British Conservatism: A very intelligent posting. It was a sad day when a senior UKIP member was touting for a Libitarian to become one of our MEP candidates: (soft on possessing child porn soft on possessing bomb-making material). Who was this individual anyway, who did the inviting? Apparently he was only engaged in polite conversation. You couldn't make it up!

Tito. How many of our allies in W.W.2 has conscript armies? Fighting the most developed industrial-military machine the world had ever seen, you deem the armies of the victorious powers, not to have been very effective!
Having rejected reality, are you now formulating political theory of the absurd?

It is actually a myth that Germany was an industrial powerhouse before and during WWII. Much of their victories had to do with the fact that they stockpiled, had good logistics and were quick. Compared to other European countries, take Britain for example, the Germany of the time would be considered rather agrarian. I'm sure you must know that one of the main reasons for their defeat was outproduction by both the Russians and the Americans.

Economics, like Jefferson pointed out, is far more powerful a tool than standing armies. If the Second World War had just been between the USA and Germany, there is still no doubt in my mind that Germany would have been defeated, it simply had no way to challenge the industrial might of the USA, which is ironic considering the America of the time was not entirely prepared for war.

As for the conscription instituted in the allied nations, in some cases, it was a complete farce. Take the USSR for example, it wasn't so much conscription as it was a death sentence.

Not to mention that had strategic neutrality been adopted in the first place at the end of the First World War (and perhaps even before) the Second probably would never have happened. Sadly, humanity never learns and we are probably setting the stage right now for some pretty bloody conflicts to come.

Mikeuk · 23-04-2008, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Bear

I would be there at the barricades knickers in hand!

Presumably because you'd just shat them.

One hears about the Marxist scum who were sent into action against Franco's patriotic forces armed only with copies of 'The Communist Manifesto'. No doubt history would repeat itself, except this time the Bear Brigade would be waving TQM manuals as they fled in terror.

Put me behind a machine gun!

John Connor · 23-04-2008, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Bear

(The Great Beast went on to ask “And what is Law” before answering his own question with “Law is love, love under the law”. I’ve always wondered just what “certain substances” he obviously spent so much time “on!)

Ummm. "Love is the law, love under will".

Please stop quoting people if you don't know what they were talking about - all this is is Crowley's way of saying "to thine own self be true".

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

13-04-2008, 12:30 PM	#32 (permalink)
Geoffrey Collier Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 1,168	Sorry, libetarian, can't see half the time.

13-04-2008, 12:32 PM	#34 (permalink)
Geoffrey Collier Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 1,168	Still managed to leave a 'r' out; most frustrating poor eye-sight.