British-Conservatism

Libertarianism would oppose corporal punishment and no doubt hard labour for criminals which makes it soft on crime.
As for the welfare state if it did not exist immigrants would still pour in.
Not to mention the fact that why should we abolish the whole welfare state just in order to stem the tide of immigration why not just end immigration.

__________________
http://conservativedemocraticalliance.blogspot.com/

The Bear

It might seem to be, but to try to resolve the problems that we face by using “Traditional Conservatism” (if by that you mean the imposition of the laws that were in place during the time of the people that you suggest) would be inhuman, and would result in civil war in the country and rightly so.

I would most certainly take to the streets if it was attempted, we’ve moved on since the horrible days of those creeps.

The problems we face can be addressed and should be but by moving on from where we are, not attempting to move back.

That doesn’t mean continuing with the “slap on the wrist” approach, nor does it mean continuing the dreadful open door strategy that New Labour adopted in order to inflate the economy not to mention the abuse of the tax system to effectively buy votes.

As for discipline, that requires as a basis clear rules especially for kids that are enforced by appropriate means.

A start in that direction would be educating the young on how to be parents together with the responsibilities and duties that go with the territory.

The days of the people you mention were no golden age. People suffered and starved and were beaten into submission.

That may be your ideal world, it may be a price you see as being a fair price to pay for changing where we are today to a more disciplined and responsible society, more concerned with the majority than with the vociferous minority.

It’s not a price I would pay. The cost / benefit ratio is far too out of high. There are better ways.

British-Conservatism

If the USA was a true democracy much like Switzerland im sure they would be quite a few referendums to push through some very right wing measures.

__________________
http://conservativedemocraticalliance.blogspot.com/

British-Conservatism

Ending immigration and returning Corporal punishment would be very popular measures indeed.
They would be no chance of civil war.
If yourself and other Left Wing extremists took to the streets in a violent manner you would be right locked up.

__________________
http://conservativedemocraticalliance.blogspot.com/

Smidgey

This is a typical conservative mindset, there is far more to crime than just the actual crime itself.

However, by your definitions I might be soft on 'crime', but compared to the current situation, I would certainly be described as tough - life should mean life. But we must also remember that in order to have a free and healthy society some of the current laws which actually cause more crime and waste more of our police time need to be abolished - such as things such as smoking bans and anti-drug laws.

Furthermore, punishment is good and all, it satisfies justice, which is a must. However, punishment leaves out the important factor of responsibility. Sure, you've been punished by the state, by the collective, but you've not really been made responsible to anyone. A good example is alcoholism and alcohol fuelled violence - giving these people free health care and a prison cell in which to sleep in for the night hardly instils responsibility. People who commit crimes whilst intoxicated need to have higher sentences and not receive any government benefits. You get drunk, your choice, your problem if anything goes wrong.

I'm not saying you will oppose these measures, I'm just giving a general idea of some of my thoughts on social justice.

Why do you presume this? Not that I mind that they did, even the current system is causing problems for individuals. Such as the Canadian woman at my work who works two jobs (far more than I do) and provides so much to this economy in a city where there are more jobs than people. She has to get her Visa renewed soon and there is a good chance she may be sent home. I don't see how this can possibly benefit anyone.

This is just a side effect, not the reason for doing it. The welfare state harms this country in many social and economic ways.

__________________
How vain is man, who boasts in fight the valour of gigantic might!

-Georg Friedrich Händel

The Bear

Not from restoration of a sensible penal system that brought back the principle of punishment in which incarceration was only one component, or the securing the borders of the USE of which we are now a part, but to turn the clock back to the time of your hero’s certainly would, and I would be there at the barricades knickers in hand!

Firstly I’m not in any way “Left Wing” much less “Left Wing Extremist”.

But secondly, were it not for people who were willing to risk all in order to make progress for people who were at the shitty end of society and being exploited 24/7, and who DID take to the streets then life in Britain would be a whole lot worse than it is today for most people.

Smidgey

I wouldn't be so sure. Take your example of Switzerland, it has a socialist welfare state just like us. Not to mention that its economy has suffered a few blips recently and has some of the lowest house ownership rates in the Western world. Its unemployment has been rising recently too. Furthermore American states have votes on specific bills quite frequently, yet we do not see the conservatism that you yearn for.

Switzerland, althought freer than our own country, is still too socialistic and left wing.

__________________
How vain is man, who boasts in fight the valour of gigantic might!

-Georg Friedrich Händel

British-Conservatism

It wasnt taking to the streets that changed things but sensible democratic measures.
You are very much the Left Wing Extremist your views are both Left Wing and Extreme.

__________________
http://conservativedemocraticalliance.blogspot.com/

British-Conservatism

The people want a welfare state infact it was seen by many Conservatives up to the era of Thatcher and her Gladstonian Liberalism as a way of creating a more united society.
Which up to that time it very much did.

__________________
http://conservativedemocraticalliance.blogspot.com/

Geoffrey Collier

British Conservatism: A very intelligent posting. It was a sad day when a senior UKIP member was touting for a Libitarian to become one of our MEP candidates: (soft on possessing child porn soft on possessing bomb-making material). Who was this individual anyway, who did the inviting? Apparently he was only engaged in polite conversation. You couldn't make it up!

Tito. How many of our allies in W.W.2 has conscript armies? Fighting the most developed industrial-military machine the world had ever seen, you deem the armies of the victorious powers, not to have been very effective!
Having rejected reality, are you now formulating political theory of the absurd?