allanon

That's the problem of tax raising democracies, not immigration.

Hartlepool

Bear said,"...I see a damn little about New Labour that is in common with Marxism beyond a desire to impose a suffocating control over the people".

You have hit the nail on the head with that statement Bear.

Isn't this exactly what this Labour Government has done to the people of this country?

Anyone who can't see that they have imposed such suffocating control on everyone must either be a Commie or a New Labour fanatic,are you either of those Bear?

The Bear

LOL!

Not while there's a hole in my ****, and that's there seven years post mortem!

I read somewhere in the past that the last part of the soft tissue to rot is the anus. Maybe that is why the worlds greatest political survivors have the same thing in common!

BonnieDundee

Actually the very word libertarian was invented by them. So that is incorrect. You need to look into the history of the term and libertarian movements, which is one of my bigges interest areas whether the movements are left or right, capitalist or socialist. To someone with knowledge of such movements the idea that socialists can't be libertarians seems very strange, in fact they probably are the majority by a small amount.

Another name for libertarian socialism is anarchism and this was the general usage of the word for 120 years and is still the main usage outside America.

A.1 What is anarchism?

Nothing could be further from the truth. Anarchists have been using the term "libertarian" to describe themselves and their ideas since the 1850's. According to anarchist historian Max Nettlau, the revolutionary anarchist Joseph Dejacque published Le Libertaire, Journal du Mouvement Social in New York between 1858 and 1861 while the use of the term "libertarian communism" dates from November, 1880 when a French anarchist congress adopted it. [Max Nettlau, A Short History of Anarchism, p. 75 and p. 145] The use of the term "Libertarian" by anarchists became more popular from the 1890s onward after it was used in France in an attempt to get round anti-anarchist laws and to avoid the negative associations of the word "anarchy" in the popular mind (Sebastien Faure and Louise Michel published the paper Le Libertaire -- The Libertarian -- in France in 1895, for example). Since then, particularly outside America, it has always been associated with anarchist ideas and movements. Taking a more recent example, in the USA, anarchists organised "The Libertarian League" in July 1954, which had staunch anarcho-syndicalist principles and lasted until 1965. The US-based "Libertarian" Party, on the other hand has only existed since the early 1970's, well over 100 years after anarchists first used the term to describe their political ideas (and 90 years after the expression "libertarian communism" was first adopted).

I don't really support either side although I suppose I prefer the leftwing type, I just want to point out that the word libertarian needs to not be claimed exclusively by anyone, because it is too useful a word. And I don't want to be labelled necessarily a Friedmanite or Randian because I use the word, I simply want people to know I'm into individual freedom.

__________________
"It is poor civic hygiene to install technologies that could someday facilitate a police state."
-Bruce Schneier

How to Overthrow the System: brew your own beer; kick in your TV; build your own cabin and p*ss off front porch whenever you bloody well feel like it.
Edward Abbey

Leopold Kohr.