Anthony Butcher

BBC NEWS | Politics | Lib Dem ordered out of EU debate

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mkpdavies

Pantomime for our benefit. The good ol boys will all be laughing together in the heavily subsidised, smoking allowed parilament bar.

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Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

Independent UKIP

Davey wanted to be thrown out and got what he wanted. He was only really thrown out because his fellow Lib Dem MPs were shouting and thus preventing Jim Murphy making his speech. I think Davey could've stood there all day while the debate was going on around him but that wouldn't've been newsworthy. The Lib Dems were only in the camber en masse to shout down the deputy speaker and more importantly to be seen to walk out en masse.

Michael Lord who was shaking and I think genuinely angry actually started smiling before he decided to throw Davey out. I took that to mean his acknowledging the pantomime aspect of what was going on.

But it does put a bit more pressure on Michael Martin so not all bad.

Vortex

I've mentioned the subsidized bar prices at the Houses of Parliament on another thread. I had a friend, who was invited to some jolly or other and out of curiosity went. He enjoyed several glasses of a particularly agreeable red on the terrace, and remarked its probably the cheapest bar in London.

Tom Wilde

A total pantomime, meant to cast the LibDems are fearless defenders of democracy rather than spineless EU yes-men. One of the more intelligent LibDems just proudly raised this walkout in a thread on the Liberal forum:

Liberal Forum :: View topic - Edward Davey and the EU

rjt

The exchange which led to the removal of Ed Davey is pasted from Hansard below.

26 Feb 2008 : Column 922

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE (LISBON TREATY) (No. 6)
Motion made, and Question put forthwith, pursuant to Order [28 January],

That the Order of 28(th) January be further amended as follows: in the Table, in the entry for Allotted Day 7, in the third column:

(a) for ‘4�1/2 hours’ substitute ‘3 hours’, and

(b) for ‘1�1/2 hours’ substitute ‘3 hours’.— [Ms Diana R. Johnson.]

Question agreed to.

Mr. Edward Davey (Kingston and Surbiton) (LD): On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. Will the Chair reconsider the decision not to select the Liberal Democrat amendment for a referendum on Britain’s membership of the EU? That is the question that goes to the heart of the debate before the House. That is the debate that people want to hear. We are being gagged, Sir.

Mr. Deputy Speaker (Sir Michael Lord): Order. I understand the hon. Gentleman’s point of order, but having made it he must not go on and start debating the matter. The selection of amendments is made by Mr. Speaker, and is not open for questioning in the House. Hon. Members will have every opportunity to discuss these matters when we embark—[Hon. Members: “When?”] Order. During the course of the debate.

Mr. Nick Clegg (Sheffield, Hallam) (LD): Further to that point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I share the dismay of my hon. Friend the Member for Kingston and Surbiton (Mr. Davey). What guidance can you give me on how we can secure—if not today, at some point during the remaining stages of the Bill—the opportunity to debate the issue that many Members want debated and many members of the public want debated: our future membership of the EU?

Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. I have made the situation quite clear to hon. Members. I am sorry if they do not accept it—

Mr. William Cash (Stone) (Con): Further to that point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker.

Mr. Deputy Speaker: No, there can be no further point of order. We must now get on with the debate.

Several hon. Members rose —

Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. I have dealt with the point of order.

Simon Hughes (North Southwark and Bermondsey) (LD): On a separate point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker.

Mr. Deputy Speaker: If it is a separate point of order, I am prepared to take it.

Simon Hughes: I have raised procedural questions about the Bill with Mr. Speaker and other occupants of the Chair. I have asked for guidance from Officers of the House on the drafting of amendments that will be selectable—generally, on the Bill, not just on this issue.
26 Feb 2008 : Column 923
I have been told that we must see the Clerks. My colleagues have been to see the Clerks and have taken advice from them. They have submitted amendments that the Clerks have told them are in order. Please will you tell me and those other colleagues who have made points of order on the Bill what more we have to do to have a point of order accepted that allows an amendment to be debated in the House on an issue that a quarter of the British people represented here want to be debated and many people regularly tell us ought to be debated? What else do we have to do, because we have followed the rules that we have been given?

Mr. Deputy Speaker: All the hon. Gentleman has done is to confirm how carefully this matter has been studied by everybody concerned. Following that careful study, Mr. Speaker has made his selection of amendments for today; that must be the end of it for today.

Several hon. Members rose —

Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. We are simply wasting time. I am not prepared to take any more points of order on the selection of amendments for today.

Mr. Cash: On a separate point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, relating to the scope of the Bill. It is clear that the Bill is making

“provision in connection with the Treaty of Lisbon Amending the Treaty on European Union”.

In that context, I simply say that the treaty has been described by the European Scrutiny Committee, on which I sit, as “substantially equivalent” to the original constitution. The Liberal Democrats have broken their promises.

Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. The hon. Gentleman is a very experienced Member of this House and knows that we are not at this point in time discussing the Bill. We are discussing the motion before the House. I suggest that we now start on that.

Mr. Davey: On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker.

Julia Goldsworthy (Falmouth and Camborne) (LD): On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker.

Mr. Deputy Speaker: Point of order—Mr. Ed Davey.

Mr. Davey: Mr. Deputy Speaker, I am grateful for your granting me this point of order. This is an outrage to the House— [Interruption.]

Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. The outrage to the House is in danger of being the hon. Gentleman’s attitude to the Chair— [Interruption.] Order. He has made his point. I have told him already how matters stand. There will be opportunities to discuss these matters—[Hon. Members: “When?”] There will be opportunities to discuss these matters at a different time.

If the hon. Gentleman persists in arguing with Mr. Speaker’s selection for amendments today, I shall be extremely annoyed. He has made his point;
26 Feb 2008 : Column 924
everybody has understood it. It is firmly on the record. Now I must insist that we get on with the debate. I call Mr. Jim Murphy.

Mr. Davey rose—

Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order— [ Interruption .] Order. I am afraid that I am now going to have to warn the hon. Member for Kingston and Surbiton (Mr. Davey) about his conduct. If he persists, stronger measures will have to be taken. Having made his point, he really is now abusing his position.

Mr. Davey: On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. We need to know when we can debate this issue. It is a debate that the British people want. It is unfair not to allow it.

Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order— [Interruption.] Order. The hon. Gentleman fails to appreciate that that is not something that I can deal with at this point in time.

Mr. Davey rose—

Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. [Interruption.] Order. The hon. Gentleman must understand that I am not prepared to allow this matter to be pursued any further. As I have said, he has made his point firmly this afternoon. It is on the record in the way he sought to make it. If he wishes to pursue it after this afternoon, he can explore other ways of doing things. I cannot do anything other than abide by the selection for this afternoon’s business, which Mr. Speaker has made in accordance with the rules of the House. As I have already explained, it is not open to being questioned in the way the hon. Gentleman is seeking to. I call Mr. Jim Murphy.

Mr. Davey rose—

Julia Goldsworthy rose—

Norman Baker (Lewes) (LD) rose—

The Minister for Europe (Mr. Jim Murphy): Mr. Deputy Speaker— [Interruption.]

Mr. Davey rose—

Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. I warn the hon. Member for Kingston and Surbiton that unless he obeys the authority of the Chair, I shall have no alternative but to order him to withdraw from the House. That means that the hon. Gentleman will have to leave the precincts of the Palace of Westminster and that he will not be able to vote for the rest of the day.

Mr. Davey rose—

Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. I think that I have made the position entirely clear to the hon. Gentleman. I repeat to him that he has had every opportunity to make the point that he sought to make, and I think that we should now move on to the debate.

Mr. Davey: With due respect, Mr. Deputy Speaker, I do not believe that we have been given our chance—


26 Feb 2008 : Column 925

Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. I have had enough. I would be grateful if the Minister got to his feet to start the debate.

Mr. Jim Murphy rose—

Mr. Davey rose—

The hon. Member, having conducted himself in a grossly disorderly manner, was ordered by Mr. Deputy Speaker , pursuant to Standing Order No. 43 (Disorderly conduct), to withdraw immediately from the House during the remainder of this day’s sitting, and he withdrew accordingly.

Several hon. Members rose —

Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. I think that that must be the end of it.

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Britannist

I don't like Davey.

I hope Liberal 'Democrat' MP Davey loses his seat at the next General Election (many of his europhile Liberal 'Democrat' party colleagues certainly will and hopefully he will be among them).

cassie

The whole thing is a contrivance to divert attention from the Lib Dems having ratted out on their 2005 General Election manifesto commitment to support the holding of a referendum on the question of whether or not UK voters are in favour of the new EU Constitution or Lisbon Treaty or call it what you will!

Worse, by going back on that commitment, they are dividing support for a referendum on the treaty now! They are a gang of unprincipled back sliders!

Frankly, I would not expect a half Dutch, quarter Russian Brit married to a Spaniard to have the UK's interests at the top of his priorities . . . he doesn't and it is not!

I wonder how quickly Cleggie will drop his policy of seeking a new referendum on the question of the UK's continued membership of the EU?


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Britannist

Exactly. I think most people in the pro-sovereignty movement have been able to see through the tactics of Clegg and his awful europhile party on this right from the start.

Britannist

Committed europhile Clegg was a Liberal 'Democrat' MEP and used to work for the 'Conservative' Leon Brittan when Brittan was an EU Commissioner.

Clegg is not in a very strong position politically at this time - he only won his party's leadership by the narrowest of margins and I am convinced they will lose seats at the next General Election. Which they deserve to do.