Hunter

I don't know when you last looked on the BNP website, but the only Muslim comments on there are to do with mainstream news which, at present, has only one item. The rest are to do with Parliamentary sleaze and corruption, the EU, and multiculturalism (Harriet Harmen planning to make the other Parties put a number of non-white candidates in their 'safe seats'. Under any other laws this would be classed as racial discrimination, but here it's to do with racial diversity. I think you will find that this is the main reason why the BNP has become so 'popular'. EVERY other Party (including UKIP) are seen to be falling into step with the riduculous PC laws that have replaced common sense, nothing to do with Muslims directly, other than it seeming that they are the main benficiaries of PC.

One point I would make here is that the BNP are not responsible for any of the YouTube videos, or their 'popularity'. I don't think the average British person 'hates' Muslims, but I do believe there may be an element of 'fear' as people see their ever increasing influence in our society ie the Sharia Law debacle with the Archbishop of Canterbury.

Dissident Congress

I have been monitoring the BNP website almost every day for several years, so I have first hand experience of the changes over time. In recent years the news section has been chock full of articles about Islam. Go back through the archive about 3 months to get an idea of this.

The BNP and their correspondents regularly provide links to anti-Islamic videos on You Tube.

Hunter

Valid points - to an extent. You forgot to mention that many of the posts are related to topical news items ie building of mosques or prayer call in Oxford. More often than not they concern items where the media has neglected to mention racist attacks on people by Asian gangs but pull out all the stops if the rolls are reversed.

Regarding the link, you have me there, I must admit to missing those. I'll have a good look around for them when I go back on the BNP website.

Dissident Congress

I can see good reason for articles highlighting conflicts between Muslims and native British people. What I find difficult to understand is why the BNP has to write articles about:

1. Conflicts between Muslims and non-Muslims in other parts of the world of no direct relevance to Britain.

2. Sharia law and quotes from the Koran and the Hadith.

3. Obscure history about Islam such as connections between the Nazis and senior imams during WWII.

unless it is a propaganda exercise to gain support and votes.

The BNP also appears to turn a blind eye to problems caused by non-Muslim ethnic groups such as street crime by W. Indians, and white collar crime and corrupt business practices by Indians. They are serious matters but don't have the same impact as articles about Islam do.

Frith

Matt Davies is not giving any kind of an accurate picture of the BNP as it is today because he works off anti-fascist literature that is as outdated as the image of the BNP supporter or member. To know the rank and file and to know why they join or support means you actually have to know them. If not, the far left will have to be your source material.

The articles and news on these sites are useful in that they point out things the BNP inner circle keep from the rank and file, but the anti-fascists shoot themselves in the foot by returning to their habitual hatred of everything one degree off right of centre and they have a tendency to make things up, lie outright and twist material to either make it suit their opinion or embellish a story. They are much the same as the gutter press. Hey, they are the gutter press, they are the political gutter press. Nevertheless they have highlighted some very concerning aspects of the party and this is what has kept many from joining and caused many to leave.

There is also a heavy far right antagonism to nationalist groups and patriotic groups who do not have any interest in the nazis or national socialism from a nazi perspective. This is where Matt Davies is getting it right, but he is talking about this lot, not the rank and file of any right wing group. There is a poisonous faction, worldwide, of neo nazi, white supremacist/white nationalist orientation that trolls its way through almost every group and that seems placed inside groups to deter anyone (or outright attack them and threaten them) from allowing an ordinary right wing patriotism or healthy nationalism to flourish, and sometimes even to germinate.

I speak from experience. I have been viciously attacked by various members of this faction. And, yes, they are neo nazis, they are white supremacists, they are thugs, they are pigs, they are louts and they are ready and willing to threaten your life if need be. I have had pictures of pornography used against me, and I have had a picture of a gun barrel pointed at me for not being a racist neo nazi. I have been attacked by trolls, insulted by psychotic nutcases and stalked and harassed. And so have many others. But because no one has any time for patriots these things are never brought to book. You have to just learn how to deal with them on your own and the situation can be so insecure and these people can be so insidiously entrenched in every group and party that an atmosphere of distrust pervades the scene and no one trusts anyone else. They can't afford to. There is always a little nazi troll waiting to bite your arm off or assassinate your character so you won't be able to post anymore, or work anywhere anymore, or you will get dragged through the press and used as an example of evil. (They often turn turtle and sell their info to the left.)

This has psychologically damaged many working class people and the others have retreated to join less volatile groups or support patriotism from afar.

When people who are members of the BNP (or any other right wing group) are beaten up, have threatening letters or e-mails sent to them, get the Searchlight treatment, are falsely accused, etc they have no recourse to the law because the law and society today is part of the left wing machine that doesn't care so much about justice as it does about enforcing its own ideology through the law. Big Brother isn't interested if your home is broken into and your girlfriend is threatened by neo nazi thugs. Big Brother isn't interested if you're afraid for your children because the far left has targeted you. Big Brother is also inconspicuous to the ordinary person in the street - until something happens, like the despicable treatment of Tony Martin, who was sentenced for defending himself against a gang of marauding travellers. Then had to have his early life events paraded through the courts as part of his seeming evil in having shot at his tormentors and killed one of them. The surviving one actually tried to sue Mr Martin because the event had upset his sex life. It was a vicious and humiliating example of what has happened to "justice" in Britain under the left. I remember I had a "free Tony Martin" image on my web site at the time. He came from my ancestral county and I felt especially angry about what happened to him. So did Ross Parker, slaughtered in cold blood by a gang of yobs on his way home from work. Also from Norfolk.

These incidents made people very angry and they were played down by the media (with assurances that every area was just one big thriving happy family) and the response to them was described as fascist. That was long ago and look how much blood has flowed under the bridge since then and still these strident accusations of fascist and racist and neo nazi rent the air every time someone complains about anything at all that doesn't fit the Social Democracy plan for the world. Tony Blair had this global plan firmly in mind which is why he so gleefully sent Britain into the Iraq war. It was to entrench a global social democracy attached to American imperialism and had nothing to do with non-existent weapons of mass destruction. If he needed to use Muslims he did, both in a negative and a positive way. No one stopped him and now he is on his way to EU and lecture circuit glory, through the Catholic Church.

Truth is indeed stranger than fiction. And still no one is particularly concerned and everyone is still content to make those calls of fascist and neo nazi against ordinary people who are up to their necks in trouble and can't find a soul to listen to their story who isn't going to humiliate their cause.

Ten years ago, even five years ago, people had nowhere else to go to have their say but far right forums. So that is where they went and dodged the missiles from the nazis if they had to. They were that worried about their future and that rejected by their own government, press and population. Theirs was a lonely trail and attacking them and humiliating them as "chavs" hasn't helped their attitude. They have become disenchanted and some have been hardened and changed in the furnace of antagonism.

But out of evil comes good because what was at first a radical and revolutionary movement with its fair share of lunatics and trolls, criminals and opportunists, has evolved and weathered into a nationalist and patriotic movement that has a great opportunity to weld itself into a powerful lobby for the independence and sovereignty of nations.

I personally have reservations about certain things and will not accept certain things and so I have left off my lone campaigning and dogfighting and support and found a place to grow. That place, for me, is the English independence movement. If I were Scots it would be further north. If Welsh, further west. The Irish have never been better. After all the years of demeaning second class status they have become a nation in their own right and they are booming. Good for them. For once, it's great to be Irish. I hope some day it will also be great to be Welsh and great to be Scots and great to be English.

No more wars against kindred nations. No more wars. A new world order. I had never heard of the conspiracy theory version of the New World Order, I had no idea there were real neo nazis flourishing everywhere, especially in America. I tripped and bashed my head open on several unexpected rocks. But, that is what makes a life and that is what makes a pathway to whatever may come of the efforts of those who stuck it out. And they did, and they still do.

I believe in the modernization efforts of the breakaway group of the BNP, but I fear they will already have been infiltrated by those same nazis and related groups who used to plague the original National Front and BNP. They may have done enough damage to necessitate fresh starts. Adrian Davies has experience of this and so when he says there are certain problems he knows what they are, who they are, where they are and why they may cause things to stagnate, break apart constantly or die.

If there's any lesson or useful info in this, Mr Constantine, I hope you find it in the stories of people (and there are many) who may feel they would like to come forward, this time without fear, and tell it like it is. They are not monsters, they are compatriots and fellow men and women. I would ask the left to try to treat them as such. because that old time degradation is ebbing a way and a new wave is lapping the shores of the Mother Countries. Let it do its job. It is a good wave and it is building all over the world from Palestine to Zimbabwe. People are laying down their weapons and taking stock of the carnage and realising that there must be a better way. There is. It isn't in hugging everyone with a pulse. It is in rediscovering our true diversity and the right to express this through ethnic and cultural means and especially politically. It isn't a form of evil, it is a positive natural process and it is only when this breaks down or is threatened that things go wrong and people start to hurt one another because they no longer understand or care about the subtle behavioural aspects of distance and respect that keep animal groups in the wild from making themselves extinct.

If there is any kind of God it will be found in nature and not in any human construction of "society" and "politics" and the "social justice" that is the fruit of Utopian romanticism and not a reflection of reality and the life world. In time, a balance will assert itself and this can be achieved sooner rather than later if people stop attacking one another and start talking to one another instead.

mkpdavies

The modern face of the BNP.

__________________
http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/
http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/
http://lpuk.org

My ignore list

Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

Frith

No, leopards can't change their spots. That is why you need a whole new breed of animal.

liberty boy

I've just watched that programme through. be very careful! I was actually at the BNP demonstration outside the Finsbury park mosque that night. I didn't recall the lady shown swearing at the Muslims in the mosque but I do recall them and presumably this was the cause of her ire -unfurling a large banner from the balcony announcing "Islam will take over Britain". Just the Channel four camera didn't show you that.

Also yes it's true- a contingent of the National front did turn up, but I didn't hear them making the obscene chants in the programme. Moreover I was stood in a BNP group that included a jewish lad on one side of me and an Asian lad on the other both holding the BNP newspapers. The camera didn't show you that. In fact the footage it showed created a totally different impression than was actually what it was like on the day. Some sort of uncouth mob of white trash. In fact there were normal respectable people of all ages in that crowd who listened largely in dignity to an ongoing speech by Jason Douglas and variously Chris Roberts- both of whom were making a restrained appeal for a Britain to remain a predominantly Christian country, whilst Muslims crowded at the balconies to jeer and make throat slitting gestures.

yes alright Mark Collet is very obviously a dick but other than that the programme makers were very obviously working to an anti-BNP agenda. But ask yourselves if you show a woman shouting "why don't you lot get out of our country blah blah "and you don't show the inflammatory banner that the muslims produced vowing to turn Britain into as Islamic state- that provoked her anger- Is that not totally dishonest journalism?

Hunter

In a way, you've answered your own questions. The fact that there are conflicts between Muslims and non-Muslims in other parts of the world would imply that it is a common factor where Muslims are concerned. The quotes from the Koran and the Hadith are there to show why the Muslims refuse to integrate with our society. Hence the reason why there is always trouble whenever they are in any place in force. The Sharia Law references would have been out of place..... until the Archbishop of Canterbury made the statement reported by the media. Most of the problems caused by Muslims boil down to their demands that non-muslim countries should accept Sharia Law and abide by it.

I have no idea why there should be any connection between Muslims and the Nazi party during WW2. Many other groups were making deals with them, not just the Imams. So it sort of loses its value with me.

The issue regarding the West Indians and Indians put us on a totally different level. They are on a par with the indigenous white population of Britain where crime is concerned. The difference between these groups and Muslims is that the Muslims will kick off big time with the authorities. For some reason, and I can only guess at what, the Government have cow-towed to the Muslim community (which is why they believe they can do what they want and get away with it) for it seems that whenever a gang of Muslim youths attack someone who is non-Muslim (usually for that reason alone), no mention of a racist attack is made, yet if there roles were to be reversed there would be a hue and cry set up.

For those who are not aware of the differences between 'Muslim' and 'Christian' thinking (and I don't mean the Religion) a church is seen as place where the christian faith is practiced. Church bells are a tradition going back to early days when nobody had clocks or watches. The bells were used to tell the 'flock' that services were about to begin. Mosques, on the other hand, are seen as a symbol that Islam has defeated the local religion of the area in which it exists. A minaret on a Mosque is notice that Sharia Law is practiced there. A call to prayer from the minaret is a statement that all other religions have been supplanted by Islam.

Don't take my word on this. Do the research and find out for yourselves. Perhaps then you will know why the BNP are so anti-muslim. One thing that should be pointed out at this time is something that never seems to be mentioned by BNP opponents and that is the large number of BNP members who are devout Christians (I am not one of them). Reading the BNP website should make that apparent.

david H

Frith, the neo-Nazis are passe and in my experience can not understand the causes of the mess we are in and so clutch at conspiracy theories to explain things and remove the fear and panic that comes with not knowing; or find scapegoats as the left do with patriots. There is a recrudescence among Conservative people, albeit outside the party and these owe nothing to Tyndall or Colin Jordan, nay have never heard of them.
This demonising really belongs to young lefties who think human nature can be changed and the world made perfect. There are also some burrowing into UKIP, simple folk whose views are formed by television programmes.
These two types: Nazis and lefties are not making the running anymore and have to fall back on insults and threats of violence, but their opinions are dated and they are falling behind.

__________________
"You think you are combatting prejudice but you are at war with nature". Edmund Burke.

http://www.buchanan.org/pa-98-1127.html