Legalise Drugs

mkpdavies · 05-02-2008, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ranter

Well I do,stop it that is . How can you say They hurt no one. What of the peasant farmers in some remote land.What of the mules who land at Heathrow with a package leaking into thier gut slowly and painfully killing them
What of the dealers using 15 and 16 year old boys armed to the teeth (lesser sentancing for kids carrying guns) to do thier dirty work.

No one ever got shot delivering a keg of beer.

Thanks for making my point even stronger.

If the drugs were legal, like a keg of beer, then legitimate business would get involved, ending the reliance on criminals to supply the demand.

Zak64 · 05-02-2008, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ranter

........No one ever got shot delivering a keg of beer.

Except in the USA during the idiocy of prohibition, I assume.

Kevin Adamson · 05-02-2008, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkpdavies

Thanks for making my point even stronger.

If the drugs were legal, like a keg of beer, then legitimate business would get involved, ending the reliance on criminals to supply the demand.

And do you think the criminal low lifes will just go away?

Or maybe they will get into other things and your back to square one with the exception of having to look after a load of druggies.

mkpdavies · 05-02-2008, 08:57 PM

They will get into other things for sure. You'll always have criminals.

Looking after druggies isn't in my plan, unless they pay for it.

Roland · 05-02-2008, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ranter

Most people belive the law should only come into play if it effects others ? agreed,

Quote:

the drug users effect me when they leave their needles all over the grass down the local park

I'm going to refer you back to what i said.

Quote:

I agree with most of that the one exception should be heroin although I think those that are already addicts should be supplied through regulated clinics where doses could be administered through doctors.

My point was that this would stop such a problem.

Quote:

,When they shove a load of marching powder up their nose in the pub which gives them a capacity to drink vast ammounts of alcohol and make it uncomfortable for everyone having a few pints.

This is a problem but then people can drink excessive amounts of alcohol any way and often the result of two much alcohol is worse than the use of cocaine as at least cocaine keeps people comparatively sober.

A few points i'd make to that-

There are other pubs if you as a consumer fill the place you are drinking is full of people you'd rather not associate with then you can with draw your funding.

The money raised by such activity could be reducing the tax you pay and lesson the burden of organized crime on the police thus freeing them up to do real work.

Quote:

They effect me when my 75 year old Moher has her handbag stolen for a couple of quid so they can get thier next fix,you could say I am effected.,so no they cant do what they like with thier own bodies.

Again I'm going to refer you back to what i said I would like you to just consider.

Quote:

2) Heroin users can live normal lives with out criminal activity if they have the money to pay for the stuff. They only get involved in crime to pay for it. They end up lying scum not because they were lying scum but because the illegality of it and their need for it causes them to live a life where lying is so routine they literally can't distinguish between a lie and the truth (this also happens to politicians). People blame the drug for the way users end up the truth is it's the life they lead.

Quote:

If legalized it would destroy much of the crime in this country. Muggings would drop significantly, so would burglaries and theft from cars. These three criminal activities are the worst in the realm of security and safety of the general public. These are not the activities of criminal gangs seeking an income from crime they are the activities of not particularly bright individuals desperate for cash.

It should also be noted that no other drug comes into the same league as heroin. I've seen the results of it a lot of my mates/assosiates got hooked on it when I was young. It's not pleasant watching people go down that road.

Quote:

Whenever this subject comes up someone will say alcohol is a drug yes but most people can use alcohol without problem

In the same light most people who use recreational drugs lead normal lives, work hard, know when they need a break from it and generally grow out of it.

They are not criminals, burrgerlers, muggers. Should normally hard working generally desent people be pasted into the same category and imprisoned ?

You obviously have strong views on the subject so my opinion will be alien to you but I would just ask you give it some thought.

22ANDUK · 06-02-2008, 10:53 AM

Adding another dimension to this discussion is Britain's current policy on drugs, especially Cannabis. What we now have is a government that is trying to please everyone, lacks a coherent and solid plan and instead straddles the centre line - which causes more damage.

The example of Cannabis refers mostly to its down-grading from Class B to Class C.

It's created a messy situation where it's still illegal, but the public is ill-informed and many believe it is now legal. Criminal gangs have caught on and Cannabis factories have rocketed and use has exploded. So it's legal status has not changed too much yet the government's policy has in fact caused a rise in crime. And headlines like this spring up:

Skunk overtakes cannabis resin in British drugs market as experts and police demand 'softly softly' U-turn | the Daily Mail

What the government has to do is make a firm decision. Either they reclassify Cannabis to a Class B (or even, as some recent experts have said, a Class A) drug, clamp down, and introduce tough penalties on dealers and users or they instead legalise it, regulate it, tax it and have a coherent plan for legalisation. It's got to be one way or the other, not a wimpy, effette idea.

It's a lot like our situation in the EU - trying to sit on the fence and appease everyone often leads to a mashed up situation where few benefit.

I personally favour at least a review of the regulation of certain drugs. I do not prescribe to the idea that if we're going to legalise some drugs that they must surely be 'Class C'. Certain types of Cocaine and Ecstacy would be better suited to tight regulations, legalisation, manufacturing and production than Cannabis or Mushrooms. Cocaine was, and is, popular with City types who can hold down high powered jobs whilst many Ecstasy users will use it only when clubbing or abroad in the Balearics etc. Never using it at home or just on the street as many Cannabis users do.

Unfortunately this Government, and the Conservative opposition, lack the guile, foresight and intellect to fully adopt a coherent drugs policy one way or the other. All we will have we will be a loose and unclear situation for many years to come.

g hall · 06-02-2008, 12:58 PM

Man has ALWAYS taken some of kind of mood changing drugs and it has even been endorsed by rulers

Allow ALL and regulate this WILL drive crime down as users will not have to steal to get their fix and criminal gangs will no longer be involved in fact while we are at it legalise prostitution BUT raise the age of consent for that to 18

Now how about bringing in gun permits

Westcountryman · 06-02-2008, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by g hall

Man has ALWAYS taken some of kind of mood changing drugs and it has even been endorsed by rulers

Allow ALL and regulate this WILL drive crime down as users will not have to steal to get their fix and criminal gangs will no longer be involved in fact while we are at it legalise prostitution BUT raise the age of consent for that to 18

Now how about bringing in gun permits

They don't HAVE to steal, they CHOOSE to steal. If they do so, they deserve to be punished.

As for legalising prostitution, forget that. The last thing I want is for this Country to descend into debauchery.

mkpdavies · 06-02-2008, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eurosceptic Atlanticist

They don't HAVE to steal, they CHOOSE to steal. If they do so, they deserve to be punished.

As for legalising prostitution, forget that. The last thing I want is for this Country to descend into debauchery.

You realise it is effectively legal already don't you?

Still, if pretending it isn't happening is your bag, I say go for it.

kernow · 06-02-2008, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ranter

Drug dealers are low life scum and should be banged up for life.
Drug users should go and keep them company for a couple of years,get the scum off our streets they will soon get the message.

Prohibition dosn't work because the penalties arn't severe enough

My thoughts exactly! Drug addiction is self imposed! Put addicts were they can't possibly get at drugs, then they'll either curl up and die or get over it! As for dealers, there's only one place for them and that's on top of a bonfire!
Most of the crime in this Country happens purely because the deterrents are not Horrific enough! It should be, if you are a violent criminal you will have a very short life!

View Poll Results: Your Opinion On The 10 Points Below
I Agree With Them. Let's Legalise and Regulate Drug Use.	16	47.06%
I Agree With Most Of Them.	4	11.76%
I Disagree With Most of Them.	1	2.94%
I Disagree With All These Points. No Currently Illicit Drugs Should Be Made Legal	11	32.35%
Some Should Be Made Legal (i.e. Cocaine) But Others Should Be Illegal (Heroin etc) - (Your Choice)	0	0%
Not Sure/Don't Know	0	0%
In Fact, We Should Continue To Fight Drugs AND Even Clamp Down On Alcohol And Tobacco	2	5.88%
Voters: 34. You may not vote on this poll

05-02-2008, 08:57 PM	#24 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 31,083 Party: Libertarian Party	They will get into other things for sure. You'll always have criminals. Looking after druggies isn't in my plan, unless they pay for it. __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

06-02-2008, 12:58 PM	#27 (permalink)
g hall Uber Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: erewhon Posts: 5,595	Man has ALWAYS taken some of kind of mood changing drugs and it has even been endorsed by rulers Allow ALL and regulate this WILL drive crime down as users will not have to steal to get their fix and criminal gangs will no longer be involved in fact while we are at it legalise prostitution BUT raise the age of consent for that to 18 Now how about bringing in gun permits __________________ "That government is best which governs least." "This is a sharp Medicine, but it is a Physician for all diseases and miseries". "To be "matter of fact" about the world is to blunder into fantasy --and dull fantasy at that, as the real world is strange and wonderful." Remember TANSTAAFL and TANJ

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06-02-2008, 10:53 AM	#26 (permalink)
22ANDUK Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 1,438	Adding another dimension to this discussion is Britain's current policy on drugs, especially Cannabis. What we now have is a government that is trying to please everyone, lacks a coherent and solid plan and instead straddles the centre line - which causes more damage. The example of Cannabis refers mostly to its down-grading from Class B to Class C. It's created a messy situation where it's still illegal, but the public is ill-informed and many believe it is now legal. Criminal gangs have caught on and Cannabis factories have rocketed and use has exploded. So it's legal status has not changed too much yet the government's policy has in fact caused a rise in crime. And headlines like this spring up: Skunk overtakes cannabis resin in British drugs market as experts and police demand 'softly softly' U-turn \| the Daily Mail What the government has to do is make a firm decision. Either they reclassify Cannabis to a Class B (or even, as some recent experts have said, a Class A) drug, clamp down, and introduce tough penalties on dealers and users or they instead legalise it, regulate it, tax it and have a coherent plan for legalisation. It's got to be one way or the other, not a wimpy, effette idea. It's a lot like our situation in the EU - trying to sit on the fence and appease everyone often leads to a mashed up situation where few benefit. I personally favour at least a review of the regulation of certain drugs. I do not prescribe to the idea that if we're going to legalise some drugs that they must surely be 'Class C'. Certain types of Cocaine and Ecstacy would be better suited to tight regulations, legalisation, manufacturing and production than Cannabis or Mushrooms. Cocaine was, and is, popular with City types who can hold down high powered jobs whilst many Ecstasy users will use it only when clubbing or abroad in the Balearics etc. Never using it at home or just on the street as many Cannabis users do. Unfortunately this Government, and the Conservative opposition, lack the guile, foresight and intellect to fully adopt a coherent drugs policy one way or the other. All we will have we will be a loose and unclear situation for many years to come.