Candidates for Lib Dim leadership refuse to back Tory push for 'Treaty' referendum

Britannist · 21-10-2007, 06:46 PM

Europhiles Clegg and Huhne - both standing for the leadership of the pro-EU Liberal Dim Party - won't be co-operating with the Cameron-Conservatives on trying to get Brown to hold an EU 'Treaty' referendum. It seems that David Cameron campaigning as a 'liberal Conservative' - as expected - does not appear to have impressed them:

Teletext (ITV 1 Teletext, analogue page 307 and ITV Digital Teletext - extract): "Both candidates in the Liberal Democrat leadership race have rejected calls by the Tories to join with them in a bid to force a referendum on the EU Treaty. Shadow Europe minister Mark Francois said it would be "possible" to defeat the Government with Lib Dem backing."

rjt · 21-10-2007, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Britannist

Europhiles Clegg and Huhne - both standing for the leadership of the pro-EU Liberal Dim Party - won't be co-operating with the Cameron-Conservatives on trying to get Brown to hold an EU 'Treaty' referendum. It seems that David Cameron campaigning as a 'liberal Conservative' - as expected - does not appear to have impressed them:

Teletext (ITV 1 Teletext, analogue page 307 and ITV Digital Teletext - extract): "Both candidates in the Liberal Democrat leadership race have rejected calls by the Tories to join with them in a bid to force a referendum on the EU Treaty. Shadow Europe minister Mark Francois said it would be "possible" to defeat the Government with Lib Dem backing."

If the Lib Dems abstain or even worse go into the government |Lobby that kills any chance of a referendum clause being added to the bill to ratify the treaty. I would think Cameron would get the backing of Paisley who has never been a fan of the EU but the SDLP will probably support the Government. Even with a Labour rebellion I dont think the numbers are there.

Britannist · 21-10-2007, 09:34 PM

The Conservatives cannot win a vote on a 'Treaty' referendum without the support of all 62 Liberal Dim Party MPs. Even with those 62 votes it looks tight - there would have to be a sizeable rebellion in Labour (i.e. alot of Labour MPs backing the Conservatives and Liberal Dims).

There is also the possibility that not all of the 198 Conservative MPs will vote for a referendum on the EU 'Amending Treaty'.

I can't see europhile Kenneth Clarke MP voting for one, for instance.

Assuming that it might not be possible to get a vote for a referendum on the 'Treaty' passed by the House of Commons then we must look at trying to get a retrospective referendum (when this lot in Government get kicked out or lose their overall majority) on the powers lost (as a result of the EU 'Amending Treaty').

Westcountryman · 22-10-2007, 02:07 AM

We can only hope that Camoron orders a three line whip on the issue, but somehow I can't see that happening.

As for the Lib Dims, I thought they'd already declared their intention to vote with the government on the issue?

Britannist · 22-10-2007, 06:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ModernUKIP

As for the Lib Dims, I thought they'd already declared their intention to vote with the government on the issue?

Yes, that is what (the now ex-Liberal Dim Party leader) Sir Menzies Campbell MP appeared to want. Perhaps that is one reason why many Liberal Dim Party members wanted him out.

rjt · 24-10-2007, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ModernUKIP

We can only hope that Camoron orders a three line whip on the issue, but somehow I can't see that happening.

As for the Lib Dims, I thought they'd already declared their intention to vote with the government on the issue?

He certiainly will, however Europhile Tory Ken Clarek has already stated he does not agree with the party lin on this issue so I imagine a few Torys will abstain.

Westcountryman · 24-10-2007, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rjt

He certiainly will, however Europhile Tory Ken Clarek has already stated he does not agree with the party lin on this issue so I imagine a few Torys will abstain.

You can't abstain on a three line whip, only a one or two line whip.

rjt · 24-10-2007, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ModernUKIP

You can't abstain on a three line whip, only a one or two line whip.

Oh yes you can Ted Heath and Ken Clarke did it on the vote on The Treaty Of Amsterdam.

Westcountryman · 24-10-2007, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rjt

Oh yes you can Ted Heath and Ken Clarke did it on the vote on The Treaty Of Amsterdam.

I'm surprised to say the least. they probably only got away with it because of their 'high profile' positions.

rjt · 24-10-2007, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ModernUKIP

I'm surprised to say the least. they probably only got away with it because of their 'high profile' positions.

It is not as uncommon as you think, over 40 Labour MPS voted against the Blair Government over its plans to cut incapacity benefit in 1997, there were rebellions over Mastricht of course. The Student Fees Debate was held unber a three line whip. People only normally have the whip withdrawn because the vote against there party or abstain on a confidence issue.

it would given there views have been unrealistic to expect Heath and Clarke to vote against something they firmly beleived in however much you and I think they were wrong.

21-10-2007, 06:46 PM	#1 (permalink)
Britannist Uber Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: London Posts: 22,896	Candidates for Lib Dim leadership refuse to back Tory push for 'Treaty' referendum Europhiles Clegg and Huhne - both standing for the leadership of the pro-EU Liberal Dim Party - won't be co-operating with the Cameron-Conservatives on trying to get Brown to hold an EU 'Treaty' referendum. It seems that David Cameron campaigning as a 'liberal Conservative' - as expected - does not appear to have impressed them: Teletext (ITV 1 Teletext, analogue page 307 and ITV Digital Teletext - extract): "Both candidates in the Liberal Democrat leadership race have rejected calls by the Tories to join with them in a bid to force a referendum on the EU Treaty. Shadow Europe minister Mark Francois said it would be "possible" to defeat the Government with Lib Dem backing."

21-10-2007, 09:34 PM	#3 (permalink)
Britannist Uber Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: London Posts: 22,896	'Treaty', referendum, Labour, Conservatives, EU 'Amending Treaty', Kenneth Clarke MP The Conservatives cannot win a vote on a 'Treaty' referendum without the support of all 62 Liberal Dim Party MPs. Even with those 62 votes it looks tight - there would have to be a sizeable rebellion in Labour (i.e. alot of Labour MPs backing the Conservatives and Liberal Dims). There is also the possibility that not all of the 198 Conservative MPs will vote for a referendum on the EU 'Amending Treaty'. I can't see europhile Kenneth Clarke MP voting for one, for instance. Assuming that it might not be possible to get a vote for a referendum on the 'Treaty' passed by the House of Commons then we must look at trying to get a retrospective referendum (when this lot in Government get kicked out or lose their overall majority) on the powers lost (as a result of the EU 'Amending Treaty').

22-10-2007, 02:07 AM	#4 (permalink)
Westcountryman Uber Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: The Westcountry. Posts: 5,922 Party: None	We can only hope that Camoron orders a three line whip on the issue, but somehow I can't see that happening. As for the Lib Dims, I thought they'd already declared their intention to vote with the government on the issue? __________________ Manus haec inimica tyrannis ense petit placidam sub libertate quietam - "This hand of mine, which is hostile to tyrants, seeks by the sword quiet peace under liberty."

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