"Tories may back private referendum on EU Constitution 2 if Brown doesn't give in"

Britannist · 30-07-2007, 03:58 PM

The Conservative Party may back a private referendum on the EU Constitution version 2 (agreed by Bliar in Brussels last month) if new Prime Minister Brown continues to refuse

to honour Labour's promise (in its last General Election Manifesto) to hold a referendum on the matter:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uklatest/s...813469,00.html

mkpdavies · 30-07-2007, 05:14 PM

Only thing I will back them on.

g hall · 30-07-2007, 06:44 PM

Why don't the Tories smell the coffee and wake up and get us out of the EUSSR

komerad · 30-07-2007, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by g hall

Why don't the Tories smell the coffee and wake up and get us out of the EUSSR

g hall - I can never understand why the Tory party cannot realise that just by saying" we will review our position regarding the EU" or words to that effect, would, not could, win them the next GE - no problem.
Perhaps I'm missing something?

Independent UKIP · 30-07-2007, 10:48 PM

How would a private referendum take place?

It is not so difficult if the local council supports the referendum as they did when various parts of England voted on council reorginisation referendums but I do wonder whether it would work credibly with hostile Labour/Lib Dem councils in charge. They wouldn't allow voting to take place in any council controlled builiding for example. I'm certainly not knocking the idea but do wonder about the logistics of it.

Britannist · 30-07-2007, 11:53 PM

The Government of Gibraltar (much to their credit) held their own 'private referendum' in about the year 2002 on the shabby deal the europhile Straw (then UK Foreign Secretary) had cooked up with the Spanish to dilute British sovereignty (over Gibraltar).

Straw and Blair/Brown's Lie-bour Party refused to hold a referendum in British Gibraltar on the Straw sell-out plot so the Government of Gibraltar (with the approval of the UK Conservative Party) held a referendum of their own in which something like 98% said No to Straw.

There was nothing Straw/Blair/Brown could do to stop the Gibraltar Government referendum taking place. I think Gibraltar's Government (a good, strong patriotic British Government unlike the one at Westminster) used public buildings to hold the referendum if I remember rightly - but had they been refused (by the Labour regime in London) they would have easily found some other premises to use as polling stations.

There is much to learn about the admirable way the Government of Gibraltar defied Labour in London and forced them - through their referendum - to drop their EU-backed "shared sovereignty" plan (in which British Gibraltar would have fallen very quickly under the full control of Spain).

In theory, the (British) Conservative Party could quite easily hold its own referendum in the UK on the EU Constitution version 2 'treaty' by simply turning each Conservative office (and many constituencies have their own Conservative office) into a polling station to be open to the public on the day of the 'private' referendum on the EU Constitution version 2 'treaty'.

However, there are some members of the public who would not wish to go into a Conservative Party local office (i.e. Labour voters who don't like the EU Constitution but who don't like the Conservative Party either).

Consequently, another way to organise a 'private' referendum on the EU Constitution version 2 'treaty' might be for an independent organisation to distribute/deliver ballot papers to every voter (i.e. to every address in the land) which would either have pre-paid envelopes with them to return the completed ballot paper or to have someone to call on each address to collect the ballot papers after they have been completed.

A private postal ballot referendum organised independently might be the best way to proceed.

Little Englander (sour) · 31-07-2007, 02:23 PM

What possible good would a private referendum achieve.

Surely, opinion polls are a form of referendum and no one takes a blind bit of notice of them, unless they are favoured by them that is.

John Doe · 31-07-2007, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Little Englander (sour)

What possible good would a private referendum achieve.

Surely, opinion polls are a form of referendum and no one takes a blind bit of notice of them, unless they are favoured by them that is.

A good point. A referendum is only meaningful if everyone accepts that it is definitive.

I would also suggest that a referendum which has a direct effect on a piece of legislation (e.g., whether or not to ratify a treaty) would probably have a very different result from one that merely expresses a view on that issue. In other words, people like to have the opportunity to grumble but when faced with real decisions they do not always follow through.

mkpdavies · 31-07-2007, 03:15 PM

If you could get GE equal turnout it would be worthwhile.

Britannist · 31-07-2007, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Little Englander (sour)

What possible good would a private referendum achieve.

A private referendum didn't do the people of Gibraltar any harm

(as I mentioned earlier in this thread).

30-07-2007, 03:58 PM	#1 (permalink)
Britannist Uber Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: London Posts: 22,896	"Tories may back private referendum on EU Constitution 2 if Brown doesn't give in" The Conservative Party may back a private referendum on the EU Constitution version 2 (agreed by Bliar in Brussels last month) if new Prime Minister Brown continues to refuse to honour Labour's promise (in its last General Election Manifesto) to hold a referendum on the matter: http://www.guardian.co.uk/uklatest/s...813469,00.html

30-07-2007, 05:14 PM	#2 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 30,604	Only thing I will back them on. __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

30-07-2007, 06:44 PM	#3 (permalink)
g hall Uber Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: erehwon Posts: 5,233	Why don't the Tories smell the coffee and wake up and get us out of the EUSSR __________________ "That government is best which governs least." "This is a sharp Medicine, but it is a Physician for all diseases and miseries". "To be "matter of fact" about the world is to blunder into fantasy --and dull fantasy at that, as the real world is strange and wonderful."

30-07-2007, 11:53 PM	#6 (permalink)
Britannist Uber Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: London Posts: 22,896	Government of Gibraltar referendum, Lie-bour Party, ballots delivered to voters The Government of Gibraltar (much to their credit) held their own 'private referendum' in about the year 2002 on the shabby deal the europhile Straw (then UK Foreign Secretary) had cooked up with the Spanish to dilute British sovereignty (over Gibraltar). Straw and Blair/Brown's Lie-bour Party refused to hold a referendum in British Gibraltar on the Straw sell-out plot so the Government of Gibraltar (with the approval of the UK Conservative Party) held a referendum of their own in which something like 98% said No to Straw. There was nothing Straw/Blair/Brown could do to stop the Gibraltar Government referendum taking place. I think Gibraltar's Government (a good, strong patriotic British Government unlike the one at Westminster) used public buildings to hold the referendum if I remember rightly - but had they been refused (by the Labour regime in London) they would have easily found some other premises to use as polling stations. There is much to learn about the admirable way the Government of Gibraltar defied Labour in London and forced them - through their referendum - to drop their EU-backed "shared sovereignty" plan (in which British Gibraltar would have fallen very quickly under the full control of Spain). In theory, the (British) Conservative Party could quite easily hold its own referendum in the UK on the EU Constitution version 2 'treaty' by simply turning each Conservative office (and many constituencies have their own Conservative office) into a polling station to be open to the public on the day of the 'private' referendum on the EU Constitution version 2 'treaty'. However, there are some members of the public who would not wish to go into a Conservative Party local office (i.e. Labour voters who don't like the EU Constitution but who don't like the Conservative Party either). Consequently, another way to organise a 'private' referendum on the EU Constitution version 2 'treaty' might be for an independent organisation to distribute/deliver ballot papers to every voter (i.e. to every address in the land) which would either have pre-paid envelopes with them to return the completed ballot paper or to have someone to call on each address to collect the ballot papers after they have been completed. A private postal ballot referendum organised independently might be the best way to proceed. Last edited by Britannist; 30-07-2007 at 11:58 PM.

31-07-2007, 03:15 PM	#9 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 30,604	If you could get GE equal turnout it would be worthwhile. __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

30-07-2007, 10:48 PM	#5 (permalink)
Independent UKIP Uber Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: London Posts: 2,308	How would a private referendum take place? It is not so difficult if the local council supports the referendum as they did when various parts of England voted on council reorginisation referendums but I do wonder whether it would work credibly with hostile Labour/Lib Dem councils in charge. They wouldn't allow voting to take place in any council controlled builiding for example. I'm certainly not knocking the idea but do wonder about the logistics of it.

31-07-2007, 02:23 PM	#7 (permalink)
Little Englander (sour) Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Portsmouth Posts: 893 Party: English Democrats	What possible good would a private referendum achieve. Surely, opinion polls are a form of referendum and no one takes a blind bit of notice of them, unless they are favoured by them that is.

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