UKIP and EDs - the differences?

ENGLISH JEW · 04-08-2007, 11:27 PM

this is my point, how can you draw the line, you can't, my own family came to england from poland in the late 1890's now I consider myself to be english and yet under any sort of BNP scheme, I and my kids would be sent back to a land that i don't, where I wasn't born and where i have no idea about the history or the culture of that land.

I was once told by some who considered themself to be Ethnic English that I would be okay because I earned my spurs fighting for england and that this group considered me to be english now - what a load of rubbish

should it not be about what people do when they are here rather than the colour of their skin

For_England · 04-08-2007, 11:52 PM

England cannot be the home to the whole world, and with the number of alien cultures in the country, it won't be England much longer, no matter what we call the people. Your forefathers came as refugees. You are therefore here legitimately. You are also Jewish, and Jews have a state in the Middle East in which non-Jews are not allowed to immigrate. How long does it take a non-Jew to be accepted? Never. Just as Jews have a national homeland to protect their own interests, so should the English. You are in that twilight zone of being both, as I partly am also. But the BNP policy is not for absolute racial purity - only that those basically 'English' before mass immigration (yourself included) are the indigenous people and should maintain majority status. The BNP simply does not micro-analyse the DNA of everyone. But nor does it deny that there is such a thing as an English people.

Independence Now! · 05-08-2007, 01:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ENGLISH JEW

'The BNP want to hold the sinking ship together, though at least they would have an English parliament'.

I laughed on two fronts with this comment, the BNP only want to hold a WHITE ship together and that's where one of your problems are. You will never ever loose this tag and that is why you are finished, you will always be a protest vote and nothing else, you've been going for 27 years and have not got 1 MP or MEP yet .

While the BNP state they support an EP, i do not believe they do, they are just trying to come onto our platform as they now realise that the English and all who live in England regardless of colour have a cause and issues that will take centre stage in British politics for years. It's too late for you guys, the people of England want a none racist party that will stand up for them and fight agains discrimination - the BNP have never and will never do this.

What do you mean by 'racist'? The BNP is NOT a 'racist' party. Its a party that believes the British people are entitled to a homeland they can call their own and to retain their majority status in it. That isn't 'racism' its called self-preservation. If the BNP is 'racist' then Japan is a 'racist' country as the BNP's policy is exactly the same as the pro-Japanese Japanese government has.

If the BNP is a 'protest vote' that is going nowhere then kindly explain how the BNP gained 2,300 more votes than the ED's did in Sedgefield and regularly beats candidates of the EDP whenever they compete against each other in council by-elections?

Independence Now! · 05-08-2007, 01:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ENGLISH JEW

I just can't ever see the BNP being treated as anything other than a protest vote. There are very few decent people within the BNP and once you scratch the surfice then you realise what sort of decaying, rancid and outdated views they have.

For a party that pretends to hold the baton for being anti immigration, actually the BNP hold out a hand to white kindred european nationals and actively support these groups so the white immigrants coming in from places like Poland are actually welcomed by the BNP so this just shows that there actual issue is one of SKIN COLOUR.

I wonder what the BNP policy is on the barnett formula and perscription charges, cancer drugs, hospital waiting times, class sizes, our OAP's having to sell their homes to fund care and our students having to fork out £3k per year just to go to higher education.

People do not buy their brand, the british brand is going and more and more people within England call themselves ENGLISH. This is something that every unionist party will have to understand if they are to survive

The BNP DOESN'T welcome Polish immigration. It is an anti-EU party and since that mass Polish and other Eastern European immigration has only come about due to Britain's membership of the EU the party is as opposed to it as it is to mass African or Asian immigration. You haven't read BNP policy statements if you believe they favour mass migration from other EU countries.

The BNP wants to withdraw Britain from the EU - a policy stance that the ED's don't have. Your party says it wants an English Parliament WITHIN the United Kingdom but it it also says it is anti-EU. How can you reconcile these two positions? Surely, you actually support the destruction of the United Kingdom as no Home Rule English Parliament could take England out of the EU since it would be a reserved matter for Westminster!

If the 'British brand' is going then how comes the BNP regularly beats the EDs at all council by-elections?

Independence Now! · 05-08-2007, 01:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ENGLISH JEW

Well this is typical of a response from someone who's linked to the BNP, you have given no answer whatsoever in your last paragraph as to what the BNP would do with such issues as the barnett formula, perscriptions, elderly care etc etc - the barnett formula has been around since the early 70's so for the last 30 or so years the English have been fleeced of their money to fund to other parts of the UK. You mentioned the NHS, so what would the BNP do to a woman who lives in England who is denied life saving cancer drugs just because she lives in England but if she lived in Scotland or Wales then she'd get these drugs -

the BNP is about colour and colour alone and yet they pretend to stand up for the ordinary folk. They talk about Ethnic British and yet where do you draw the line, how long does someone have to live here to be able to consider themselves British - is it 10 years, 50 years, 100 years, 250 years etc etc = please advise

Your party has a repulsive hatred of the other parts of the United Kingdom. I've seen your webforum the COSG and the amount of senseless abuse directed towards the people of Scotland, Wales and NI is sickening to behold. The Barnett formula is partially justified by the fact that public spending in the Highlands and Islands COSTS more to provide than it does in other parts of Britain which have better communications (many of the roads up there are still single-track). Another reason is that the area is the size of Belgium and has many small settlements scattered all over it. The provision of public services in such an area simply costs more. I've been to the Highlands on holiday and until you go there you can't truely appreciate what I am saying here.

The EDP has the same bad attitude problem towards the other parts of the United Kingdom as the SNP and Plaid do. The BNP is a Unionist party and proud of it.

ENGLISH JEW · 05-08-2007, 08:30 AM

You suggest that the EDP has a bad attitude towards other parts of the UK - wrong and if you think that the CofSG forum is soley an EDP site then you are wrong again.

The EDP want eqaulity with the rest of your so called UNION.

Just take the case of NI in the recent state with them restarting their assembly - The UK gave them 56billion as a sweetener in order for them to re-open their assembly and in fact while the assembly wasn't sitting for all those years, the taxpayer ( and that includes you ) still paid for all the politicans while then did nothing at all.

You suggest that the barnett forumla is right, rubbish, even Lord Barnett has said it was wrong and that it was only for 1 year way back in the 70's.

Just for the record, the EDP appose mass immigration and we support a system along the lines of the Aussies whereby you have to prove your value before you can come into their country.

You also seem to suggest that even NOW with Scotland and it's parliament that the English Taxpayer should still bail them out - how wrong is that, when Scotland becomes a independent nation, do you still expect us to send over 36billion to them.

ENGLISH JEW · 05-08-2007, 08:33 AM

'If the 'British brand' is going then how comes the BNP regularly beats the EDs at all council by-elections?'

The BNP has been going for about 27 years and the ED's have been going for 4 and half years, we are catching them up. Yes with have a problem with getting the message out there but we have moved our mountain with very little cash and our % vote in the last round of council elections increased.

Independence Now! · 05-08-2007, 01:44 PM

You are nowhere near catching the BNP up as that by-election in Sedgefield demonstrated. UKIP as far as I am aware beat you in virtually every contest they put-up a candidate with you in and even the Monster Raving Loony Party does. Dr David Owen had the good sense to recognise the futility of his continuing SDP party when the SDP got beaten by the Loonies in the Bootle By-election of 1990. When is the EDP going to do the same? Your brand of civic 'nationalism' is absurd and has no significant electoral appeal. Face facts, the people of England don't view your single issue as being a particularly important one when compared to others such as mass immigration, the EU, law and order (or rather the lack of it), the continuing and growing threat of home-grown Islamic terrorism ect.

I see you got a poor vote yet again in the Gosport by-election last Thursday. If UKIP had stood there, I have no doubt they would have beaten you.

Independence Now! · 05-08-2007, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ENGLISH JEW

You suggest that the EDP has a bad attitude towards other parts of the UK - wrong and if you think that the CofSG forum is soley an EDP site then you are wrong again.

The EDP want eqaulity with the rest of your so called UNION.

Just take the case of NI in the recent state with them restarting their assembly - The UK gave them 56billion as a sweetener in order for them to re-open their assembly and in fact while the assembly wasn't sitting for all those years, the taxpayer ( and that includes you ) still paid for all the politicans while then did nothing at all.

You suggest that the barnett forumla is right, rubbish, even Lord Barnett has said it was wrong and that it was only for 1 year way back in the 70's.

Just for the record, the EDP appose mass immigration and we support a system along the lines of the Aussies whereby you have to prove your value before you can come into their country.

You also seem to suggest that even NOW with Scotland and it's parliament that the English Taxpayer should still bail them out - how wrong is that, when Scotland becomes a independent nation, do you still expect us to send over 36billion to them.

Scotland is an integral part of the United Kingdom and its parliament isn't responisble for the collecting of taxes or the spending of them so there is no question of 'bailing them out'. They could say the same with regard to us and the fact that Scottish taxpayers pay into the system and what about the oil money? You are treating them as if they are independent. They aren't so these considerations don't apply. We only have one treasury in Britain - the United Kingdom treasury.

What is wrong with providing NI with money to rebuild after 30 odd years of a senseless war waged by separatists? No doubt the EDP has considerable sympathy for Sinn Fein/IRA if not their repulsive methods. I said the Barnett formula had a partial justification.

The EDP DOESN'T have the same hardline attitude to immigration as the BNP does. I accept the fact that the COSG forum does have people on there who don't belong to the EDP but many do and the attitudes of the EDP members and supporters are normally as extreme and anti-Scottish, anti-Welsh and anti-Northern Irish as the non-EDP ones.

04-08-2007, 11:27 PM	#71 (permalink)
ENGLISH JEW Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: England's Jewel, Chester Posts: 71 Party: English Democrats	this is my point, how can you draw the line, you can't, my own family came to england from poland in the late 1890's now I consider myself to be english and yet under any sort of BNP scheme, I and my kids would be sent back to a land that i don't, where I wasn't born and where i have no idea about the history or the culture of that land. I was once told by some who considered themself to be Ethnic English that I would be okay because I earned my spurs fighting for england and that this group considered me to be english now - what a load of rubbish should it not be about what people do when they are here rather than the colour of their skin __________________ Shalom 2nd Gerneration English & Proud This is more than just Politics Its PERSONAL www.justiceforengland.com

05-08-2007, 08:30 AM	#76 (permalink)
ENGLISH JEW Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: England's Jewel, Chester Posts: 71 Party: English Democrats	You suggest that the EDP has a bad attitude towards other parts of the UK - wrong and if you think that the CofSG forum is soley an EDP site then you are wrong again. The EDP want eqaulity with the rest of your so called UNION. Just take the case of NI in the recent state with them restarting their assembly - The UK gave them 56billion as a sweetener in order for them to re-open their assembly and in fact while the assembly wasn't sitting for all those years, the taxpayer ( and that includes you ) still paid for all the politicans while then did nothing at all. You suggest that the barnett forumla is right, rubbish, even Lord Barnett has said it was wrong and that it was only for 1 year way back in the 70's. Just for the record, the EDP appose mass immigration and we support a system along the lines of the Aussies whereby you have to prove your value before you can come into their country. You also seem to suggest that even NOW with Scotland and it's parliament that the English Taxpayer should still bail them out - how wrong is that, when Scotland becomes a independent nation, do you still expect us to send over 36billion to them. __________________ Shalom 2nd Gerneration English & Proud This is more than just Politics Its PERSONAL www.justiceforengland.com

05-08-2007, 08:33 AM	#77 (permalink)
ENGLISH JEW Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: England's Jewel, Chester Posts: 71 Party: English Democrats	'If the 'British brand' is going then how comes the BNP regularly beats the EDs at all council by-elections?' The BNP has been going for about 27 years and the ED's have been going for 4 and half years, we are catching them up. Yes with have a problem with getting the message out there but we have moved our mountain with very little cash and our % vote in the last round of council elections increased. __________________ Shalom 2nd Gerneration English & Proud This is more than just Politics Its PERSONAL www.justiceforengland.com

05-08-2007, 01:44 PM	#78 (permalink)
Independence Now! Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 1,096	You are nowhere near catching the BNP up as that by-election in Sedgefield demonstrated. UKIP as far as I am aware beat you in virtually every contest they put-up a candidate with you in and even the Monster Raving Loony Party does. Dr David Owen had the good sense to recognise the futility of his continuing SDP party when the SDP got beaten by the Loonies in the Bootle By-election of 1990. When is the EDP going to do the same? Your brand of civic 'nationalism' is absurd and has no significant electoral appeal. Face facts, the people of England don't view your single issue as being a particularly important one when compared to others such as mass immigration, the EU, law and order (or rather the lack of it), the continuing and growing threat of home-grown Islamic terrorism ect. I see you got a poor vote yet again in the Gosport by-election last Thursday. If UKIP had stood there, I have no doubt they would have beaten you. Last edited by Independence Now!; 05-08-2007 at 01:54 PM.

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04-08-2007, 11:52 PM	#72 (permalink)
For_England Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 1,691	England cannot be the home to the whole world, and with the number of alien cultures in the country, it won't be England much longer, no matter what we call the people. Your forefathers came as refugees. You are therefore here legitimately. You are also Jewish, and Jews have a state in the Middle East in which non-Jews are not allowed to immigrate. How long does it take a non-Jew to be accepted? Never. Just as Jews have a national homeland to protect their own interests, so should the English. You are in that twilight zone of being both, as I partly am also. But the BNP policy is not for absolute racial purity - only that those basically 'English' before mass immigration (yourself included) are the indigenous people and should maintain majority status. The BNP simply does not micro-analyse the DNA of everyone. But nor does it deny that there is such a thing as an English people.