22ANDUK

Just in conjunction with the Greatest PMs poll, a poll for those statesmen who were high up, occupied elected positions or lead parties (post-1945)

I'm never going to list all, so add your own.

I also came up with (but couldn't add)

Hugh Gaitskell
Norman Tebbit
Michael Portillo
Nye Bevan
Roy Jenkins
Enoch Powell
Chris Patten
Jeremy Thorpe
David Owen

Britannist

The Late Enoch Powell should have been included in the list at the top of the page, if you don't mind me pointing out. I certainly think his name should be on your list rather than the unpleasant europhile political failure Heseltine.

I know you mention Enoch Powell in your actual text in your first posting - but he really was an outstanding parliamentarian (as even those who were against him conceded) and should be named in your list.

On the EEC/EU/'Europe' issue everything he said was right.

Westcountryman

Tebbit for me, but Powell is indeed a legendary Parliamentarian.

__________________
Manus haec inimica tyrannis ense petit placidam sub libertate quietam - "This hand of mine, which is hostile to tyrants, seeks by the sword quiet peace under liberty."

Britannist

Lord Tebbit is the only person on the list at the top of the page who has called for us to get out of the EU (in a fringe meeting speech he made at the October 2006 Conservative conference).

Neil Kinnochio has also called for EU withdrawal actually - but since campaigning for us to get out of the EU he suddenly became a pro-EU turncoat (after his anti-EU boss Michael Foot quit as Labour leader) and, of course, now thinks the EU is wonderful having got his snout in the EU trough.

kernow

If Lord Tebbit said "Back UKIP" the Tory rank and file would flood to us!

Independent UKIP

IIRC Norman Tebbit didn't stand for the tory party leadership because he was taken in by John Major who utterly falsely pretended to be a euro-realist. At the time I wanted him to stand and would've supported his candidacy (being someone who, in the absence of UKIP, supported the tories but was never tempted to be a member). I doubt that Tebbit as leader would've won the '92 election but how history would've then developed regarding the UK in the EU we will never know!

A 'glorious' defeat for the tories in '92 could've led the europhiles to take total control of the leadership and thus the split within the tories over Europe which someone like Peter Hitchens is still waiting for would have happened over 10 years ago and we would now have one far bigger version of UKIP with many MPs if not in government and the end game closer than it appears to be now.

Alternatively a defeat in '92 could've been small enough for the eurosceptics to keep control of the leadership and they would then actively oppose the pro-EC/EU Labour party over the Maastricht treaty and there being plenty of fellow eurosceptics within the Labour party lead to the defeat of Kinnock on that issue. With the recession that faced whoever won the '92 election the eurosceptic tory party could be well placed to win the next election in eg '97. In that scenario UKIP would probably never have been created but with Maastricht defeated and a avowedly eurosceptic tory leadership possibly in government the EC advance would be stymied for the UK at least.

Or maybe not.

Britannist

He won't. But having him call for EU withdrawal at least helps create the 'mood' among Conservative members and voters in which Conservatives vote UKIP in EU Elections (as 1.2 million did last time).

There are those who think that if David Camoron maintains his pro-EU policy agenda, Lord Tebbit won't need to tell Conservatives to back UKIP - they'll already be doing so.

Independent UKIP

Damn right, Kernow. And if he stays around 40% (or more) on this poll somebody within UKIP should write to him about that. I know ukip.org don't like this site but such an endorsement here (if maintained) isn't at all meaningless. I don't expect him to defect to us but endorsing him can't do any harm and could be beneficial.

Britannist

The europhile wimp Major is responsible for the birth of UKIP. He was the party's midwife (not that he intended to be, of course).

His hatred of eurosceptics; his loathing of anti-EU people; his bogus 'eurorealism' designed to fool eurosceptics into voting for him in the Conservative leadership contest; his failure to back Lady Thatcher in the first round of the Conservative leadership contest when he suddenlty got "a tooth ache" so he couldn't speak in her favour; his determination to push through the power-grabbing Maastricht treaty on EU orders; his failure to give any government jobs to anyone from the eurosceptic majority in the ranks of the Conservative membership; his nasty joke about the Tory (Conservative) 'euro-rebels' needing to be taken away by "men in white coats"; his enthusiasm for the euro and a whole range of other policy disasters Major was responsible for led to the creation of UKIP.

He (the political reject and failure Major) has broken up the broad church that used to be the Conservative 'family' - that 43% of voters who elected and kept re-electing the Thatcher government. The sovereigntists which he and all pro-EU Conservatives took for granted and have quit the Tory fold and most don't intend to go back. Many are in UKIP; some in the English Democrats and a large number are sitting on their hands not voting for anyone.

Without them back, the chances of the Cameron-Conservatives of winning a majority at the next General Election are precisely NIL - and the Conservatives have Major to blame for destroying the most successful election winning machine in the western world (that was the Tory party before Major wrecked it). And all because he was to weak to stand up to the EU.

kernow

[quote="Britannist"][He won't. But having him call for EU withdrawal at least helps create the 'mood' among Conservative members and voters
quote]

Agreed, he won't say back UKIP it was just wishful thinking on my part.
I do wonder why a person as anti EU as he obviously is still backs the Tories? It could be because all the senior Tories are pro EU and he's afraid of looking a "chump". On the other hand I think he's too big a man to worry what others might think or say about his views!