Europhile Scottish Nationalists will get 51% of vote - poll

Johnny Hates Jazz · 02-11-2006, 01:03 PM

Texas

Quote:

That's like me going to Texas and saying "I like the idea of seeing Texas becoming a sovereign nation".

Texas was a Soverign Nation, (and like Scotland), Texas joined the United States because it was bankrupt (and Scotland did the same with England)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Texas

Quote:

The Republic of Texas was a short-lived country in North America between the United States and Mexico that existed from 1836 to 1845. Formed as a break-away republic from Mexico as a result of the Texas Revolution, the nation claimed borders that encompassed an area that included all of the present U.S. state of Texas, as well as parts of present-day New Mexico, Oklahoma, Kansas, Colorado, and Wyoming. The eastern boundary with the United States was defined by the Adams-Onis Treaty between the United States and Spain in 1819. Its southern and western-most boundary with Mexico was under dispute throughout the lifetime of the Republic, with Texas claiming that the boundary was the Rio Grande and Mexico claiming the Nueces River as the boundary. This dispute would later become a trigger for the Mexican-American War after the annexation of Texas.

Westcountryman · 02-11-2006, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by English Democrat

Texas

Quote:

That's like me going to Texas and saying "I like the idea of seeing Texas becoming a sovereign nation".

Texas was a Soverign Nation, (and like Scotland), Texas joined the United States because it was bankrupt (and Scotland did the same with England)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Texas

Quote:

The Republic of Texas was a short-lived country in North America between the United States and Mexico that existed from 1836 to 1845. Formed as a break-away republic from Mexico as a result of the Texas Revolution, the nation claimed borders that encompassed an area that included all of the present U.S. state of Texas, as well as parts of present-day New Mexico, Oklahoma, Kansas, Colorado, and Wyoming. The eastern boundary with the United States was defined by the Adams-Onis Treaty between the United States and Spain in 1819. Its southern and western-most boundary with Mexico was under dispute throughout the lifetime of the Republic, with Texas claiming that the boundary was the Rio Grande and Mexico claiming the Nueces River as the boundary. This dispute would later become a trigger for the Mexican-American War after the annexation of Texas.

That's why I picked it. :roll:

organist · 02-11-2006, 04:19 PM

Actually England was virtually bankrupt when it joined the union, from the actual text of the Act of Union, from:

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Acts_of_Union_1707

Article 15 economics of balancing taxation.

Quote:

Whereas by the Terms of this Treaty the Subjects of Scotland for preserving an Equality of Trade throughout the United Kingdom, will be lyable to severall Customs and Excises now payable in England, which will be applicable towards payment of the Debts of England, contracted before the Union;

I rather like that bit, the fact that as part of the United Kingdom Scottish taxpayers were now liable for paying off English debt. The equivalent that was despatched to Scotland (there is no evidence that it ever was) was supposed to compensate for this - but went into the pockets of the individuals in Scotland bribed to support the Union.

I wonder how much that equivalent would be worth now? Perhaps this is something we should be campaigning on in Scotland - after all we were paying for debts (through higher taxes) that weren't our own. We, are therefore due it back.

All previous sections on taxation were dedicated to RAISING Scottish taxes to the English which was higher.

You'll also notice, there is no mention of Scotland's national debt before the union, anywhere in the act - because the government didn't have one. Any debt incurred by the Darien venture was incurred by private individuals and the upper classes.

organist · 02-11-2006, 04:29 PM

What's going to happen if Scotland becomes independent? You lot down south will have to take responsibility (and pay for) your own nuclear weapons - after all we, in Scotland, get charged for them to artificially inflate our net fiscal position, purely because they are located in Scotland! They benefit more than just Scotland.

What are you going to do, when your petro-currency crashes, because you aren't an oil producer any more? Rampant inflation anyone?

Where will you get your energy from?

Maybe we could invite the French to use some of the military airbases in our country (Kinloss, Leuchars etc) , once the UK RAF is broken up. I'm sure they'd jump at the chance (it would be just like old times, hehe

) Maybe that would be a step too far.

Honestly, I think it will all be fine, I'm sure we can all come to some reasonable arrangements, if not Scotland will have European opinion and International precedent on its side.

mkpdavies · 02-11-2006, 04:51 PM

You are just as bad as the English Democrats.

No, you are worse, because you lie to your people about the EU.

English Lion · 02-11-2006, 04:52 PM

Let's face facts. If the Scots want to wander off into the EU minefield they can go alone. If Wales thinks it would be better off with the EU than with England they are welcome to go too.

What we know is, is that Scotland and Wales will push the envelope and make a nuisance of themselves BUT when push comes to shove they are unlikely to say good night Vienna to the UK. It's brinkmanship pure and simple and what the stupid politicians in the UK should be doing, is putting forward real concrete reasons WHY the Union should survive.

As an English Nationalist the case for keeping the UNion is I am afraid steadily weaker. England is a net contributor to Scotland and Wales, we create many jobs (state funded) in Scotland and Wales, and whilst (until recently) most English people never gave it a second thought, the constant moaning and sniping of botht he Scots and Welsh is (quite frankly) getting on my nerves.

It is time England gave both these countries a reality check and showed them the door and the full implication of going through it. There is no financial case for England to worry about shedding Wales and Scotland, and IF it ever became the declared will of those places that they wanted to walk then WHY would we want to have an unhappy cuckoo in the nest - kick em out.

Don't whinge on about "it will break up the Union" that my friends was a possible outcome the minute Moron Blair and Scot Nat Brown got their devolution plans launched.

England is now fighting for her survival, she may not be able to save herself with the onslaught of regionalisation staring her in the face.

To lose England as a nation state is a more horrific prospect than to lose the UK Parliament, for without England as a cohesive whole there is NO going back.

England must be preserved at all costs, city regions, Euro Regions any bloody region must be the sworn enemy of any democratic and EU Eurosceptic.

I still believe, as I have always done, that UKIP would be far better advised to join ranks with the English Democrats and provide a strong credible alternative to the Unionist parties that are intent on stitching England up.

Once we can get across to our people that all three parties want to see the end of England as a nation, the people will move away from these traitors at a hell of a pace and if they had a strong growing national alternative then it we could together find a whole new future for the nation.

English Democrats are not and have never been anti-Union, we have however always been pro English and friendly to the Union.

That is why the English Democrats launched the English Constitutional Convention to begin the national public dialogue we have so far been denied and why we have always strenuously argued that saving England as a nation state, is, in the end more important than the Union, because at the moment, Scotland couldn't give a damn and their MPs keep voting to the detriment of England and Wales (like a sheep) is following on behind.

A strong Englishocentric government is what we now need, the minority will has been favoured for long enough - now let the majority speak.

Come and join with the English Democrats and help the fight to keep England a nation

mkpdavies · 02-11-2006, 04:55 PM

Quote:

English Democrats are not and have never been anti-Union

Sorry that is a blatant lie, going on the attitutdes of your leading members.

Westcountryman · 02-11-2006, 06:14 PM

I'm a firm believer in the United Kingdom. As for Scotland not being in the red when it joined the Union, you're wrong, most, if not all of Europe was.

Also, why do some Scots think that if Scotland goes independent they get the oil? What are they going to do, swim out to the Royal Navy and ask for access? I'd rather see the remainder get signed over to Norway than go to Scotland so ignorant schmucks such as the SNP can't gloat.

This-England · 02-11-2006, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by organist

What's going to happen if Scotland becomes independent? You lot down south will have to take responsibility (and pay for) your own nuclear weapons - after all we, in Scotland, get charged for them to artificially inflate our net fiscal position, purely because they are located in Scotland! They benefit more than just Scotland.

What are you going to do, when your petro-currency crashes, because you aren't an oil producer any more? Rampant inflation anyone?

Where will you get your energy from?

Maybe we could invite the French to use some of the military airbases in our country (Kinloss, Leuchars etc) , once the UK RAF is broken up. I'm sure they'd jump at the chance (it would be just like old times, hehe

) Maybe that would be a step too far.

Honestly, I think it will all be fine, I'm sure we can all come to some reasonable arrangements, if not Scotland will have European opinion and International precedent on its side.

Of course we will pay for them England must remain a Nuclear power.

This-England · 02-11-2006, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ModernTory

I'm a firm believer in the United Kingdom. As for Scotland not being in the red when it joined the Union, you're wrong, most, if not all of Europe was.

Also, why do some Scots think that if Scotland goes independent they get the oil? What are they going to do, swim out to the Royal Navy and ask for access? I'd rather see the remainder get signed over to Norway than go to Scotland so ignorant schmucks such as the SNP can't gloat.

This is the reality Scotland must learn the hard way when they a small weak nation.
England shall take what her strength can gain her.

02-11-2006, 04:51 PM	#15 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 30,823 Party: Libertarian Party	You are just as bad as the English Democrats. No, you are worse, because you lie to your people about the EU. __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

02-11-2006, 06:14 PM	#18 (permalink)
Westcountryman Uber Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: The Westcountry. Posts: 5,922 Party: None	I'm a firm believer in the United Kingdom. As for Scotland not being in the red when it joined the Union, you're wrong, most, if not all of Europe was. Also, why do some Scots think that if Scotland goes independent they get the oil? What are they going to do, swim out to the Royal Navy and ask for access? I'd rather see the remainder get signed over to Norway than go to Scotland so ignorant schmucks such as the SNP can't gloat. __________________ Manus haec inimica tyrannis ense petit placidam sub libertate quietam - "This hand of mine, which is hostile to tyrants, seeks by the sword quiet peace under liberty."

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02-11-2006, 04:29 PM	#14 (permalink)
organist Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 108	What's going to happen if Scotland becomes independent? You lot down south will have to take responsibility (and pay for) your own nuclear weapons - after all we, in Scotland, get charged for them to artificially inflate our net fiscal position, purely because they are located in Scotland! They benefit more than just Scotland. What are you going to do, when your petro-currency crashes, because you aren't an oil producer any more? Rampant inflation anyone? Where will you get your energy from? Maybe we could invite the French to use some of the military airbases in our country (Kinloss, Leuchars etc) , once the UK RAF is broken up. I'm sure they'd jump at the chance (it would be just like old times, hehe ) Maybe that would be a step too far. Honestly, I think it will all be fine, I'm sure we can all come to some reasonable arrangements, if not Scotland will have European opinion and International precedent on its side.

02-11-2006, 04:52 PM	#16 (permalink)
English Lion Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Norwich Posts: 48	Let's face facts. If the Scots want to wander off into the EU minefield they can go alone. If Wales thinks it would be better off with the EU than with England they are welcome to go too. What we know is, is that Scotland and Wales will push the envelope and make a nuisance of themselves BUT when push comes to shove they are unlikely to say good night Vienna to the UK. It's brinkmanship pure and simple and what the stupid politicians in the UK should be doing, is putting forward real concrete reasons WHY the Union should survive. As an English Nationalist the case for keeping the UNion is I am afraid steadily weaker. England is a net contributor to Scotland and Wales, we create many jobs (state funded) in Scotland and Wales, and whilst (until recently) most English people never gave it a second thought, the constant moaning and sniping of botht he Scots and Welsh is (quite frankly) getting on my nerves. It is time England gave both these countries a reality check and showed them the door and the full implication of going through it. There is no financial case for England to worry about shedding Wales and Scotland, and IF it ever became the declared will of those places that they wanted to walk then WHY would we want to have an unhappy cuckoo in the nest - kick em out. Don't whinge on about "it will break up the Union" that my friends was a possible outcome the minute Moron Blair and Scot Nat Brown got their devolution plans launched. England is now fighting for her survival, she may not be able to save herself with the onslaught of regionalisation staring her in the face. To lose England as a nation state is a more horrific prospect than to lose the UK Parliament, for without England as a cohesive whole there is NO going back. England must be preserved at all costs, city regions, Euro Regions any bloody region must be the sworn enemy of any democratic and EU Eurosceptic. I still believe, as I have always done, that UKIP would be far better advised to join ranks with the English Democrats and provide a strong credible alternative to the Unionist parties that are intent on stitching England up. Once we can get across to our people that all three parties want to see the end of England as a nation, the people will move away from these traitors at a hell of a pace and if they had a strong growing national alternative then it we could together find a whole new future for the nation. English Democrats are not and have never been anti-Union, we have however always been pro English and friendly to the Union. That is why the English Democrats launched the English Constitutional Convention to begin the national public dialogue we have so far been denied and why we have always strenuously argued that saving England as a nation state, is, in the end more important than the Union, because at the moment, Scotland couldn't give a damn and their MPs keep voting to the detriment of England and Wales (like a sheep) is following on behind. A strong Englishocentric government is what we now need, the minority will has been favoured for long enough - now let the majority speak. Come and join with the English Democrats and help the fight to keep England a nation