English Constitutional Convention Meeting

Independence Now! · 24-10-2006, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brian lee

arden forester wrote

Quote:

It won't! The trouble is that the EDP, which has some excellent policies, is going in two directions at once. An English Parliament does not necessarily beget an exit from the EU and leaving the EU does not necessarily beget an English Parliament. The two issues have different constituencies, although some may agree with both issues!

Perhaps the EDs can walk and chew gum at the same time.

By concentrating on the EU issue, UKIP is neglecting those matters that the Parliament can still do. It is obvious that the English are now fed up with being ruled by the Scots as well as the EU. Getting out of the EU is one thing but it still leaves the English ruled by another lot of foreigners.

The Scots aren't 'foreigners'. Many of them have English blood in them and many of us down here have their blood in us. They are Britons as are we.

This-England · 24-10-2006, 08:11 PM

An independent England is the only chance we have got of getting out of the EU.
The Scottish and Welsh dont want to withdraw from the European Union.

mkpdavies · 24-10-2006, 08:16 PM

What evidence do you have for that opinion?

English MPs have put us into the EU and kept us there. What will change by them having another layer of beurocracy?

Independence Now! · 24-10-2006, 08:53 PM

Precisely. What the Scottish and Welsh bashers don't seem to realise is that the vast majority of the electorate and the parliamentary seats are in England and this has always been the case so it is perverse to blame anything wrong with Britain on the Scots and Welsh, particularly the fact we are up to our necks in the EU. Who consistently voted for Mrs Thatcher and the Tories in the 1980's? It wasn't the Scots (the Tories started their downward spiral 'North of the Border' in 1987) or the Welsh but the English and those that lived in Southern England in particular. After all, it was Thatcher's government and John Major's that gave away most of the power to the EU with the signing of the Single European Act and the Maastrict Treaty. Also, the ONLY part of Britain that VOTED AGAINST remaining in the Common Market in that referendum in 1975 was the Shetland and Orkney Isles! If memory serves me correctly, I believe the Western Isles may have done so as well and it was noticiable that the further North you travelled the more 'Eurosceptic' the vote in that referendum became!

This-England · 24-10-2006, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkpdavies

What evidence do you have for that opinion?

English MPs have put us into the EU and kept us there. What will change by them having another layer of beurocracy?

Ive seen a few opinion polls that show quite difference on EU opinion in Scotland and England.
That a side however i would have thought UKIP's own results in Scotland would prove it.
Or is that because you are a Unionist party that you do so badly up there.
The only way i could see any anti-EU force doing well in Scotland is if it backed the independence for Scotland too.
Other wise Labours Scottish and Welsh MP's will drag England into the abyss.

This-England · 24-10-2006, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Independence Now!

Precisely. What the Scottish and Welsh bashers don't seem to realise is that the vast majority of the electorate and the parliamentary seats are in England and this has always been the case so it is perverse to blame anything wrong with Britain on the Scots and Welsh, particularly the fact we are up to our necks in the EU. Who consistently voted for Mrs Thatcher and the Tories in the 1980's? It wasn't the Scots (the Tories started their downward spiral 'North of the Border' in 1987) or the Welsh but the English and those that lived in Southern England in particular. After all, it was Thatcher's government and John Major's that gave away most of the power to the EU with the signing of the Single European Act and the Maastrict Treaty. Also, the ONLY part of Britain that VOTED AGAINST remaining in the Common Market in that referendum in 1975 was the Shetland and Orkney Isles! If memory serves me correctly, I believe the Western Isles may have done so as well and it was noticiable that the further North you travelled the more 'Eurosceptic' the vote in that referendum became!

Im not a Scottish or Welsh Basher i fully back their battle for independence from the UK and EU.
Its a shame the SNP isnt an anti-European party like it once was or they would probley have both already.
Shetland, Orkney and the Western Islands where the areas most effected by the EEC fishing rights hence the large anti-EU vote.
Somthing the SNP its its current pro-EU forum is failing to tap into.

mkpdavies · 24-10-2006, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Ive seen a few opinion polls that show quite difference on EU opinion in Scotland and England.
That a side however i would have thought UKIP's own results in Scotland would prove it.
Or is that because you are a Unionist party that you do so badly up there.
The only way i could see any anti-EU force doing well in Scotland is if it backed the independence for Scotland too.
Other wise Labours Scottish and Welsh MP's will drag England into the abyss.

Ah, so you pulled it out of your **** then. That's what I thought.

If you think UKIP isn't doing well up there or anywhere else because it is unionist, then I have some beachside property in the Gobi desert you might be interested in.

This-England · 24-10-2006, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkpdavies

Quote:

Ive seen a few opinion polls that show quite difference on EU opinion in Scotland and England.
That a side however i would have thought UKIP's own results in Scotland would prove it.
Or is that because you are a Unionist party that you do so badly up there.
The only way i could see any anti-EU force doing well in Scotland is if it backed the independence for Scotland too.
Other wise Labours Scottish and Welsh MP's will drag England into the abyss.

Ah, so you pulled it out of your a*** then. That's what I thought.

If you think UKIP isn't doing well up there or anywhere else because it is unionist, then I have some beachside property in the Gobi desert you might be interested in.

Why such poor results in Scotland compared to England then?
I will get the opinion polls on the EU from Scotland for you.

Populist Lee · 24-10-2006, 09:58 PM

Perhaps the answer is because it is "UKIP".

I recall a gentleman who was UKIP's highest scorer in Scotland in the 2001 General Election.

He left UKIP; then stood as an Independent (BRITISH POPULIST) for the same constituency in the Scottish Assembly Elections in 2003. His score was much better.
He stood on a populist and unionist ticket.

mkpdavies · 24-10-2006, 10:02 PM

1. UKIP get poor results all over .
2. UKIP have a tiny base in Scotland, as the party grew out of the south of England to start with. Therefore it is bound to be behind.
3. The positioning of the party so far, has been to attract Tories in the main. That is not good feeding ground in Scotland.
4. UKIP probably is seen as too English as things stand.

The Scottish are very independent people. They want out of the EU just as much if not more than us, but sadly they are being conned by the SNP, as what they see as the only true opposition to the Troika up there. Most of them don't realise what a scabby sell out party that is.

It is true UKIP as a party has to address this issue. Just abandoning many potential EUsceptics is not a very wise choice. Maybe UKIP itself needs to spilt off seperate, Scotland, England, Welsh and N Ireland parties, that come together under one anti-EU banner, but have seperate policies for their own particular areas.

Don't pull this **** that the Scots and Welsh love the EU though, because it is blantant ********.

24-10-2006, 08:16 PM	#23 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 30,823 Party: Libertarian Party	What evidence do you have for that opinion? English MPs have put us into the EU and kept us there. What will change by them having another layer of beurocracy? __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

24-10-2006, 10:02 PM	#30 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 30,823 Party: Libertarian Party	1. UKIP get poor results all over . 2. UKIP have a tiny base in Scotland, as the party grew out of the south of England to start with. Therefore it is bound to be behind. 3. The positioning of the party so far, has been to attract Tories in the main. That is not good feeding ground in Scotland. 4. UKIP probably is seen as too English as things stand. The Scottish are very independent people. They want out of the EU just as much if not more than us, but sadly they are being conned by the SNP, as what they see as the only true opposition to the Troika up there. Most of them don't realise what a scabby sell out party that is. It is true UKIP as a party has to address this issue. Just abandoning many potential EUsceptics is not a very wise choice. Maybe UKIP itself needs to spilt off seperate, Scotland, England, Welsh and N Ireland parties, that come together under one anti-EU banner, but have seperate policies for their own particular areas. Don't pull this ** that the Scots and Welsh love the EU though, because it is blantant ******. __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

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24-10-2006, 08:11 PM	#22 (permalink)
This-England Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 1,682	An independent England is the only chance we have got of getting out of the EU. The Scottish and Welsh dont want to withdraw from the European Union.

24-10-2006, 08:53 PM	#24 (permalink)
Independence Now! Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 1,096	Precisely. What the Scottish and Welsh bashers don't seem to realise is that the vast majority of the electorate and the parliamentary seats are in England and this has always been the case so it is perverse to blame anything wrong with Britain on the Scots and Welsh, particularly the fact we are up to our necks in the EU. Who consistently voted for Mrs Thatcher and the Tories in the 1980's? It wasn't the Scots (the Tories started their downward spiral 'North of the Border' in 1987) or the Welsh but the English and those that lived in Southern England in particular. After all, it was Thatcher's government and John Major's that gave away most of the power to the EU with the signing of the Single European Act and the Maastrict Treaty. Also, the ONLY part of Britain that VOTED AGAINST remaining in the Common Market in that referendum in 1975 was the Shetland and Orkney Isles! If memory serves me correctly, I believe the Western Isles may have done so as well and it was noticiable that the further North you travelled the more 'Eurosceptic' the vote in that referendum became!

24-10-2006, 09:58 PM	#29 (permalink)
Populist Lee Uber Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 2,171 Party: Other	Perhaps the answer is because it is "UKIP". I recall a gentleman who was UKIP's highest scorer in Scotland in the 2001 General Election. He left UKIP; then stood as an Independent (BRITISH POPULIST) for the same constituency in the Scottish Assembly Elections in 2003. His score was much better. He stood on a populist and unionist ticket.