What will we call the UK when Scotland leaves ?

Johnny Hates Jazz · 16-10-2006, 10:24 PM

The treaty of 1707 is null and void if Scotland "leaves".

The Union was between England and Scotland

If Scotland dissolves the Union England also becomes independent.

mkpdavies · 16-10-2006, 10:26 PM

How convienient for the EU.

organist · 18-10-2006, 11:18 PM

No, it doesn't. England will not get its independence when Scotland gets rid of the Union. Wales and Northern Ireland will still part of the same nation state as England.

Johnny Hates Jazz · 19-10-2006, 05:37 PM

M Davies wrote

Quote:

How convienient for the EU.

warped :?:

Johnny Hates Jazz · 19-10-2006, 05:47 PM

http://www.democracyforum.co.uk/post...=reply&t=14848

Organist wrote

Quote:

No, it doesn't. England will not get its independence when Scotland gets rid of the Union. Wales and Northern Ireland will still part of the same nation state as England.

Pre 1600

Ireland was a colony of England

Wales was considered as part of England

Circa 1600 - Scottish King was also made the English King

1707 - The "Union" of England and Scotland formally occurred (United Kingdom of Great Britain - a Union of Equal Status)

Circa 1800 - Ireland joined the Union as equal status to Scotland and England (United Kingdom of Great Britian and Ireland)

Circa 1910 - Most of Ireland Left (United Kingdom of Great Britain and N Ireland)

1997 - Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland got devolution (The Union starts to get cracks, as the countries no longer have equal status)

2007 - Scotland breaks the Union with England.

So yes you are right once the Union with Scotland is broken, then Wales is effectively totally obsurbed into England and dissappears, and N Ireland is a Colony.

It's hardly going to be appropriate to call it a "United Kingdom"

If you are a proud Unionist, then surely you need to understand a bit of the history - I surprised that Unionists aren't campaigning to re-unify the whole of Ireland with Great Britain, after all the period between 1800 and 1910 was surely the most sucesssful part of the British Empire days ??

:roll:

Independence Now! · 24-10-2006, 01:24 AM

Northern Ireland is NOT a colony and never has been. It sends MPs to the British Parliament in London and has been a part of the United Kingdom for over 200 years. NOWHERE in the world, apart from Ireland, was ever allowed to send MPs to Westminster not even the thirteen colonies in America or Australia. Please don't parrot NORAID propaganda.

Britannist · 24-10-2006, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Independence Now!

Northern Ireland is NOT a colony and never has been. It sends MPs to the British Parliament in London and has been a part of the United Kingdom for over 200 years. NOWHERE in the world, apart from Ireland, was ever allowed to send MPs to Westminster not even the thirteen colonies in America or Australia. Please don't parrot NORAID propaganda.

Exactly. Northern Ireland has been part of the UK for longer than the USA has existed. And that's the way it's going to stay.

Britannist · 24-10-2006, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by organist

No, it doesn't. England will not get its independence when Scotland gets rid of the Union. Wales and Northern Ireland will still part of the same nation state as England.

This is correct. So is the reverse - if England quit the UK, the UK would continue as long as at least two other parts of the present UK stayed in it. In fact, legally, I think the UK would continue even if only one of the four parts of today's UK were in it. Unless it was deliberately dissolved by one or parts of today's UK. The UK is an internationally-recognised legal entity. It doesn't just go away if one or two parts of it were to quit.

But I don't agree with the reference by Organist (above) to "when" Scotland gets rid of the Union. I think Organist means "if".

My own view is that the four parts of today's UK should stay in it - but I want England to have equality with Scotland within the UK and favour the establishment of an English Parliament and English Executive.

Johnny Hates Jazz · 26-10-2006, 03:51 PM

If you want 4 Nations in the UK

Then why don't you start a campaign to get Southern Ireland back !

Populist Lee · 26-10-2006, 04:10 PM

Maybe a confederation of the nation states of the British Isles isn't a stupid idea.

You confuse me ED.
Have you become a member of the English Independence Party?

View Poll Results: What should the UK be called without Scotland
Britain	4	22.22%
Greater England	2	11.11%
England	1	5.56%
England, Wales & Northern Ireland	3	16.67%
None of the above	8	44.44%
Voters: 18. You may not vote on this poll

16-10-2006, 10:24 PM	#51 (permalink)
Johnny Hates Jazz Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 1,973 Party: English Democrats	The treaty of 1707 is null and void if Scotland "leaves". The Union was between England and Scotland If Scotland dissolves the Union England also becomes independent. __________________ *English Democrats SAY NO* To European Union English not British** not European *- It's time to decide at the 2009 European Elections*

16-10-2006, 10:26 PM	#52 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 30,820	How convienient for the EU. __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

26-10-2006, 03:51 PM	#59 (permalink)
Johnny Hates Jazz Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 1,973 Party: English Democrats	If you want 4 Nations in the UK Then why don't you start a campaign to get Southern Ireland back ! __________________ *English Democrats SAY NO* To European Union English not British** not European *- It's time to decide at the 2009 European Elections*

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18-10-2006, 11:18 PM	#53 (permalink)
organist Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 108	No, it doesn't. England will not get its independence when Scotland gets rid of the Union. Wales and Northern Ireland will still part of the same nation state as England.

24-10-2006, 01:24 AM	#56 (permalink)
Independence Now! Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 1,096	Northern Ireland is NOT a colony and never has been. It sends MPs to the British Parliament in London and has been a part of the United Kingdom for over 200 years. NOWHERE in the world, apart from Ireland, was ever allowed to send MPs to Westminster not even the thirteen colonies in America or Australia. Please don't parrot NORAID propaganda.

26-10-2006, 04:10 PM	#60 (permalink)
Populist Lee Uber Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 2,170 Party: Other	Maybe a confederation of the nation states of the British Isles isn't a stupid idea. You confuse me ED. Have you become a member of the English Independence Party?