UKIP is a poll threat admits anti-UKIP and pro-EU Cameron

Britannist · 03-10-2006, 06:14 AM

Pro-EU David Cameron has admitted that the anti-EU UK Independence Party (UKIP) is a threat to his strategy of moving the Conservative Party to the left (what he calls ‘the centre’) and that his policy of ignoring the EU issue and of not making tax cuts a priority and of UKIP filling the policy gap he is consequently opening up is “a risk that we (the Conservatives) are prepared to take.”

The eurosceptic and pro-tax cutting Conservative MP, Edward Leigh said on 1.10.2006 (as reported by LBC Radio 1152 AM on 2.10.2006 at 2.03 am) “There is already evidence of Conservative supporters switching to UKIP and to the British National Party because of the Cameron policy to stop making tax cuts a priority.”

Nick Robinson, political editor at the BBC, said at 10.13 pm on BBC 1 Television News on 2.10.2006 “A source tells me that David Cameron, the Conservative leader, has commented on the possibility of UKIP or even the BNP filling the policy gaps he is vacating by him ‘moving to the centre’ and he has said (Quote) That is the risk I am prepared to take (End of quote).”

David Cameron insulted UKIP in an interview given to London’s LBC 1152 AM radio on 4.4.2006. He refused to apologise or withdraw his comments, in which he accused UKIP members of “being closet racists mostly”. The day after he made the remark, there was a row when a woman in charge of a Conservative local ward branch near to Manchester said that voters in her area would not want an Asian candidate. An embarrassed Cameron was forced to get her to withdraw her comments.

The Daily Telegraph printed an editorial criticising David Cameron and calling on him to say sorry to UKIP for his unprovoked attack. Some say that David Cameron was rattled with UKIP for asking him under the Freedom of Information Act to name wealthy donors to the Conservative Party.

In the last two weeks opinion polls have shown Cameron’s lead falling back. One poll last week said that his popularity rating with voters had slumped by a whopping 11% in one go.

mkpdavies · 03-10-2006, 06:52 AM

Sounds like they want to give the impression of losing all the extremists to me.

prober · 03-10-2006, 08:36 AM

Cameron has done his arithmetic and decided he can afford to lose a substantial % of traditional Tory voters to UKIP or to abstensions on the basis that his total repositioning of the Tory Party into a tree/EU/hoodie hugging high tax party will attract a higher number of Lib Dems. Cynically this could make sense. However whether or not it will apeal to non ideological soft Labour voters fed up with Blairism is a different question.

Whatever; it presents a massive opportunity if UKIP gets its act together & radically transforms itself to be a multiaspect impact party instead of merely standing in elections and getting on the box. Lets hope the leadership dont screw it up through failure of imagination & not thinking through how to be seen as credible. We will know by Sunday.

An immediate danger of "not thinking through" may be UKIP's "flat tax" policy which despite the essential big rise in threshold can easily cause UKIP to be seen as a "high tax on pensioners" party as it seems to want to merge Nat Ins & income tax into a single % for all. Pensioners currently dont pay NI, so many in the key cohort UKIP must attract votes from will lose out.

mkpdavies · 03-10-2006, 08:40 AM

I'd have thought pensioners of all kinds would do very well out of it.

No tax on the first 9k for poorer pensioners. A lower 33% on savings and investements for the ones that did manage to save something.

Hopefuly as the economy starts to fire up, other taxes would be stripped out and everntualy the flat rate might be able to come down a bit too.

Overtime earners will keep more of their money. The poor will not pay tax at all and the rich will have a lower rate too.

Sounds a bit too good to be true.

eublues · 03-10-2006, 09:05 AM

There's a problem that lots of people only pay 20% tax on investment income (eg in building society/bank account), so this would be much more.

Consolidating National Insurance and tax is good in principle as at the moment NI is a stealth tax.

(I shall be interested to see the detail of the UKIP policy - hope it's not got too many glaring defects.)

harryaldridge · 03-10-2006, 09:40 AM

I think you will find UKIPs tax policy includes a lower rate just for pensioners, pending a full review of the pension system, specifically to counter this.

Also with regard to savings & Investment tax of 20%. As i undertand it, UKIPs policy is base donthe Rabushka-Hall model of the flat tax which should lead to abolition of tax on savings and investment.

The R-H model is essentially a consumption tax, but levied on income (ie. throughout the flow of money through the economy it does not tax saving and investment, but taxes wages etc. It is a veyr celever concept once you get your head round it.

UKIPs policy will, i expect, include a range of transitional measures which will be needed due to the massive costs of cutting them completely. e.g. capital gains tax will fall from a higher rate of 40% to 33%. In the long term this needs to be abolished but temporarily can be maintained.

Tashry · 03-10-2006, 01:16 PM

It is starting to seem that Cameron is trying to destroy the conservativism of the Conservative Party.

Soon the Conservative Party will be defunct and then the Tories will spread to different parties.

Independence Now! · 03-10-2006, 02:04 PM

Let's hope the charade of the Conservative Party finally dies. What exactly is the point of the Conservative Party? All it does when it loses an election is to act punch-drunk for a couple of years, talk to itself and then eventually adopt the same stance as the Labour Party and the Lib Dims! Instead of standing its ground and attempting to persuade the electorate to move in its direction, they follow Labour and the Lib Dims. They are followers and not political leaders. :roll:

Hereward the Wake · 03-10-2006, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by harryaldridge

Also with regard to savings & Investment tax of 20%. As i undertand it, UKIPs policy is base donthe Rabushka-Hall model of the flat tax which should lead to abolition of tax on savings and investment.

The R-H model is essentially a consumption tax, but levied on income (ie. throughout the flow of money through the economy it does not tax saving and investment, but taxes wages etc. It is a very celever concept once you get your head round it.

We should definitely not go for the Rabushka-Hall model.

Why should a hard working person pay taxes yet a millionaire living off investments not?

I became involved in centre-right politics because I want to reduce taxes for ordinary people, not millionaires.

I am against such regressive taxes.

mkpdavies · 03-10-2006, 02:52 PM

Careful not to let jealousy get in the way.
I wouldn't want to see the super rich get richer at the expense of the middle classes and poor.

But if everyone benefits, then I'm O.K with it. Especially if it gives poor and middle earners something to aspire to.

03-10-2006, 06:14 AM	#1 (permalink)
Britannist Uber Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: London Posts: 22,896	UKIP is a poll threat admits anti-UKIP and pro-EU Cameron Pro-EU David Cameron has admitted that the anti-EU UK Independence Party (UKIP) is a threat to his strategy of moving the Conservative Party to the left (what he calls ‘the centre’) and that his policy of ignoring the EU issue and of not making tax cuts a priority and of UKIP filling the policy gap he is consequently opening up is “a risk that we (the Conservatives) are prepared to take.” The eurosceptic and pro-tax cutting Conservative MP, Edward Leigh said on 1.10.2006 (as reported by LBC Radio 1152 AM on 2.10.2006 at 2.03 am) “There is already evidence of Conservative supporters switching to UKIP and to the British National Party because of the Cameron policy to stop making tax cuts a priority.” Nick Robinson, political editor at the BBC, said at 10.13 pm on BBC 1 Television News on 2.10.2006 “A source tells me that David Cameron, the Conservative leader, has commented on the possibility of UKIP or even the BNP filling the policy gaps he is vacating by him ‘moving to the centre’ and he has said (Quote) That is the risk I am prepared to take (End of quote).” David Cameron insulted UKIP in an interview given to London’s LBC 1152 AM radio on 4.4.2006. He refused to apologise or withdraw his comments, in which he accused UKIP members of “being closet racists mostly”. The day after he made the remark, there was a row when a woman in charge of a Conservative local ward branch near to Manchester said that voters in her area would not want an Asian candidate. An embarrassed Cameron was forced to get her to withdraw her comments. The Daily Telegraph printed an editorial criticising David Cameron and calling on him to say sorry to UKIP for his unprovoked attack. Some say that David Cameron was rattled with UKIP for asking him under the Freedom of Information Act to name wealthy donors to the Conservative Party. In the last two weeks opinion polls have shown Cameron’s lead falling back. One poll last week said that his popularity rating with voters had slumped by a whopping 11% in one go.

03-10-2006, 06:52 AM	#2 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 30,604	Sounds like they want to give the impression of losing all the extremists to me. __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

03-10-2006, 08:40 AM	#4 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 30,604	I'd have thought pensioners of all kinds would do very well out of it. No tax on the first 9k for poorer pensioners. A lower 33% on savings and investements for the ones that did manage to save something. Hopefuly as the economy starts to fire up, other taxes would be stripped out and everntualy the flat rate might be able to come down a bit too. Overtime earners will keep more of their money. The poor will not pay tax at all and the rich will have a lower rate too. Sounds a bit too good to be true. __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

03-10-2006, 02:52 PM	#10 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 30,604	Careful not to let jealousy get in the way. I wouldn't want to see the super rich get richer at the expense of the middle classes and poor. But if everyone benefits, then I'm O.K with it. Especially if it gives poor and middle earners something to aspire to. __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

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03-10-2006, 08:36 AM	#3 (permalink)
prober Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 836	Cameron has done his arithmetic and decided he can afford to lose a substantial % of traditional Tory voters to UKIP or to abstensions on the basis that his total repositioning of the Tory Party into a tree/EU/hoodie hugging high tax party will attract a higher number of Lib Dems. Cynically this could make sense. However whether or not it will apeal to non ideological soft Labour voters fed up with Blairism is a different question. Whatever; it presents a massive opportunity if UKIP gets its act together & radically transforms itself to be a multiaspect impact party instead of merely standing in elections and getting on the box. Lets hope the leadership dont screw it up through failure of imagination & not thinking through how to be seen as credible. We will know by Sunday. An immediate danger of "not thinking through" may be UKIP's "flat tax" policy which despite the essential big rise in threshold can easily cause UKIP to be seen as a "high tax on pensioners" party as it seems to want to merge Nat Ins & income tax into a single % for all. Pensioners currently dont pay NI, so many in the key cohort UKIP must attract votes from will lose out.

03-10-2006, 09:05 AM	#5 (permalink)
eublues Uber Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,005	There's a problem that lots of people only pay 20% tax on investment income (eg in building society/bank account), so this would be much more. Consolidating National Insurance and tax is good in principle as at the moment NI is a stealth tax. (I shall be interested to see the detail of the UKIP policy - hope it's not got too many glaring defects.)

03-10-2006, 09:40 AM	#6 (permalink)
harryaldridge Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: West Sussex Posts: 1,912	I think you will find UKIPs tax policy includes a lower rate just for pensioners, pending a full review of the pension system, specifically to counter this. Also with regard to savings & Investment tax of 20%. As i undertand it, UKIPs policy is base donthe Rabushka-Hall model of the flat tax which should lead to abolition of tax on savings and investment. The R-H model is essentially a consumption tax, but levied on income (ie. throughout the flow of money through the economy it does not tax saving and investment, but taxes wages etc. It is a veyr celever concept once you get your head round it. UKIPs policy will, i expect, include a range of transitional measures which will be needed due to the massive costs of cutting them completely. e.g. capital gains tax will fall from a higher rate of 40% to 33%. In the long term this needs to be abolished but temporarily can be maintained.

03-10-2006, 01:16 PM	#7 (permalink)
Tashry Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: London Posts: 380	It is starting to seem that Cameron is trying to destroy the conservativism of the Conservative Party. Soon the Conservative Party will be defunct and then the Tories will spread to different parties.

03-10-2006, 02:04 PM	#8 (permalink)
Independence Now! Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 1,096	Let's hope the charade of the Conservative Party finally dies. What exactly is the point of the Conservative Party? All it does when it loses an election is to act punch-drunk for a couple of years, talk to itself and then eventually adopt the same stance as the Labour Party and the Lib Dims! Instead of standing its ground and attempting to persuade the electorate to move in its direction, they follow Labour and the Lib Dims. They are followers and not political leaders. :roll: