'We Need More Troops'

mkpdavies · 22-09-2006, 02:24 PM

http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/...543583,00.html

Quote:

Leaked emails from a British serving officer in Afghanistan have revealed more of the armed forces' concerns about the fight against the Taliban.

Quote:

The three emails - seen by Sky News - say some RAF pilots have been "utterly, utterly useless" in supporting troops on the ground.

This is bad news. When your own side start turning on each other, you know things are wrong.

MarkR · 22-09-2006, 03:41 PM

Quote:

The three emails - seen by Sky News - say some RAF pilots have been "utterly, utterly useless" in supporting troops on the ground.

[/quote]

Nothing new there, unfortunately.

chikrodah · 22-09-2006, 03:44 PM

There's a more balanced report of the situation in Afghanistan in the DT here.

Members of the armed forces and aviation fora are pretty supportive of ALL the troops in Afghanistan and are blaming:

1. The media
2. The politicians
3. The top brass of the armed forces

for any problems.

8)

Aardvark · 22-09-2006, 07:31 PM

I would be interested to know what support has been given, what support was expected and whether the RAF pilots had sufficient serviceable aircraft to achieve the support required. There's no point blaming a pilot (or navigator) for not delivering the support if the parts for their aircraft are still in Stafford. Likewise, if the army needs 24 helicopters and only has 4 then it can't expect the handful of aircrew who remain in the RAF to do six times the work (Aardvark - former OC Air-to-Air Refuelling and Air Transport Task Plans; former Nav/Ops 230 Sqn)

Remember the Nimrod is the Comet Mk4 (check history books). The Chinook came into service in 1981 and was already old and second hand. The TriStar is a former airliner bought in 1984!

My personal experience (2000 hours as a navigator) is that the RAF tries very hard to do the job with the resources provided. If you look at the age of the aircraft it is like covering D-Day with Sopwith Camels!!!! The Army think that a helicopter is a 4 tonner that flies. The Army expect aircrew to work 20 hour shifts despite the fact that fatigue kills, and fatigue kills a lot more when you're flying and fall out of the sky. I have been asked why aircraft can't have bags strapped to the side (aerodynamics), why an aircraft is fully loaded when there is still space inside it (power, weight, height, heat ratios), why pilots can't fly for 24 hours non-stop (certainty of death of all in the aircraft when they crash), why aircraft keep having to go and refuel when their is obviously fuel in the tanks (safe minima for diversion in the event of bad weather, blocked runways etc) and so on. When ignorance is bliss it is folly to be wise in the case of the average grunt! :roll:

extra ordinary · 22-09-2006, 08:22 PM

I am starting to get worried about our blokes out there in afgan territory. they need massively re-arming and equiping, where is the cover and support these guys clearly now need ?

Hartlepool · 22-09-2006, 08:35 PM

We may have to wait until one of our outposts is overrun,or takes massive casualties before Bliar sends some of what they need.

Seems like the Taliban are able to mount attacks from front,rear or any flank in Helmand.

You can only last so long on using your initiative and good luck quota.

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22-09-2006, 03:44 PM	#3 (permalink)
chikrodah Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Midlands Posts: 1,663	There's a more balanced report of the situation in Afghanistan in the DT here. Members of the armed forces and aviation fora are pretty supportive of ALL the troops in Afghanistan and are blaming: 1. The media 2. The politicians 3. The top brass of the armed forces for any problems. 8)

22-09-2006, 07:31 PM	#4 (permalink)
Aardvark Moderator Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Oxonia Posts: 3,928	I would be interested to know what support has been given, what support was expected and whether the RAF pilots had sufficient serviceable aircraft to achieve the support required. There's no point blaming a pilot (or navigator) for not delivering the support if the parts for their aircraft are still in Stafford. Likewise, if the army needs 24 helicopters and only has 4 then it can't expect the handful of aircrew who remain in the RAF to do six times the work (Aardvark - former OC Air-to-Air Refuelling and Air Transport Task Plans; former Nav/Ops 230 Sqn) Remember the Nimrod is the Comet Mk4 (check history books). The Chinook came into service in 1981 and was already old and second hand. The TriStar is a former airliner bought in 1984! My personal experience (2000 hours as a navigator) is that the RAF tries very hard to do the job with the resources provided. If you look at the age of the aircraft it is like covering D-Day with Sopwith Camels!!!! The Army think that a helicopter is a 4 tonner that flies. The Army expect aircrew to work 20 hour shifts despite the fact that fatigue kills, and fatigue kills a lot more when you're flying and fall out of the sky. I have been asked why aircraft can't have bags strapped to the side (aerodynamics), why an aircraft is fully loaded when there is still space inside it (power, weight, height, heat ratios), why pilots can't fly for 24 hours non-stop (certainty of death of all in the aircraft when they crash), why aircraft keep having to go and refuel when their is obviously fuel in the tanks (safe minima for diversion in the event of bad weather, blocked runways etc) and so on. When ignorance is bliss it is folly to be wise in the case of the average grunt! :roll:

22-09-2006, 08:22 PM	#5 (permalink)
extra ordinary Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: south east Posts: 196	I am starting to get worried about our blokes out there in afgan territory. they need massively re-arming and equiping, where is the cover and support these guys clearly now need ?

22-09-2006, 08:35 PM	#6 (permalink)
Hartlepool Uber Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: North East England Posts: 6,785 Party: Free England Party	We may have to wait until one of our outposts is overrun,or takes massive casualties before Bliar sends some of what they need. Seems like the Taliban are able to mount attacks from front,rear or any flank in Helmand. You can only last so long on using your initiative and good luck quota.