New census could ask for income

mkpdavies · 11-08-2006, 03:34 PM

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4777629.stm

Quote:

People in England and Wales could be asked to declare how much they earn in the next national census, if the government approves the question.
The Office for National Statistics is planning its first major pilot test in May 2007 - which will help shape the design for the next census in 2011.

Of the 100,000 householders taking part, half will be asked about pay.

The government is likely to decide whether a section about income and second homes is to be included in 2010.

I don't think I am going to bother filling out the census anymore. Or at least not correctly.

harryaldridge · 11-08-2006, 03:57 PM

**** off!

I don't mind telling how much i earn in principle, when it is to be used for national statistics to help government make decisions on taxation and welfare etc.

Hoever, we know from expereince that once you give the government new powers, they will find new uses for them. In the same way, giving them information, will not be the end of it. How long before the taxman realises there is a difference between your tax paid and the amount of income you wrote down? He'll be knocking at your door before your realise it.

e.g. road user charging (satellite tracking your car and charging you for the roads you use at certain times etc). Today they say this is simply for fairer charing for road use. However in the future i am sure they will extend it. They could calculate the average speed between 2 points and so issue automatic speeding fines etc.

The government has too much power, and i don't trust any politician to use the powers wisely.

Hereward · 11-08-2006, 09:33 PM

I don't mind declaring how much I earn, it is declaring what I get paid that I object to! :wink:

BASILDON BOY · 11-08-2006, 09:39 PM

What a crappy question - when the Inland Revenue has all these details already!!!

Hereward · 11-08-2006, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BASILDON BOY

What a crappy question - when the Inland Revenue has all these details already!!!

It was tried in a census held in 1966 under the Wilson Government. Objections in the run up to it were so strong, that it was made voluntary and separate, on a pink form. Enumerators could also see where this was leading and so did not encourage its completion.

Indeed, take up was so low, that it has taken four decades for it to raise its ugly head again.

The OPCS made a c**p job in 2001, with what was basically a head count. So, aside from the inherent undesirability of having such questioning, why should we repose any more confidence in its ability to be more accurate with a more complicated count?

Independent UKIP · 11-08-2006, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hereward

The OPCS made a c**p job in 2001, with what was basically a head count. So, aside from the inherent undesirability of having such questioning, why should we repose any more confidence in its ability to be more accurate with a more complicated count?

2001 was indeed a failure, apparently massively underestimating the population of inner London for example, leading to a serious problem of underfunding for the councils concerned. One or some tried to get Govt. funding based on their true population but I don't remember the outcome of that campaign, sorry.

Even fewer people will complete their census form if this change goes through and they are people who will be easier prey for fines/penalties from the state. Those who do complete the form will risk investigation and possibly therefore fines/penalties from the state - from either the Inland Revenue or the Census Office depending on where the wrong info was declared.

mkpdavies · 11-08-2006, 11:15 PM

I've been thinking about that.

The State has power over anyone who is part of the system. Put yourself outside of the system and the state has a much harder time opressing you.

That's why they want ID cards, tied to databases full of your biometric details.

With the cashless society also on the horizon, there will not be a single thing you can do that is anonymous. Therefore the state will have full control over you.

Imagine giving that kind of power to a future Hitler, Stalin, Hussein or Blair.

Unless some sort of altenate black market system sprung up, you would be totaly at the mercy of who ever had their hands on the levers of power at the time.

Orwellian nightmare.

11-08-2006, 11:15 PM	#7 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 30,825 Party: Libertarian Party	I've been thinking about that. The State has power over anyone who is part of the system. Put yourself outside of the system and the state has a much harder time opressing you. That's why they want ID cards, tied to databases full of your biometric details. With the cashless society also on the horizon, there will not be a single thing you can do that is anonymous. Therefore the state will have full control over you. Imagine giving that kind of power to a future Hitler, Stalin, Hussein or Blair. Unless some sort of altenate black market system sprung up, you would be totaly at the mercy of who ever had their hands on the levers of power at the time. Orwellian nightmare. __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

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11-08-2006, 03:57 PM	#2 (permalink)
harryaldridge Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: West Sussex Posts: 1,912	**** off! I don't mind telling how much i earn in principle, when it is to be used for national statistics to help government make decisions on taxation and welfare etc. Hoever, we know from expereince that once you give the government new powers, they will find new uses for them. In the same way, giving them information, will not be the end of it. How long before the taxman realises there is a difference between your tax paid and the amount of income you wrote down? He'll be knocking at your door before your realise it. e.g. road user charging (satellite tracking your car and charging you for the roads you use at certain times etc). Today they say this is simply for fairer charing for road use. However in the future i am sure they will extend it. They could calculate the average speed between 2 points and so issue automatic speeding fines etc. The government has too much power, and i don't trust any politician to use the powers wisely.

11-08-2006, 09:33 PM	#3 (permalink)
Hereward Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: York, ENGLAND Posts: 345	I don't mind declaring how much I earn, it is declaring what I get paid that I object to! :wink:

11-08-2006, 09:39 PM	#4 (permalink)
BASILDON BOY Senior Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: N'Djamena, Chad Posts: 1,799	What a crappy question - when the Inland Revenue has all these details already!!!