Pro-EU Hain tells Ulster to increase links with republic

Independent UKIP · 01-08-2006, 02:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ENGLISH JEW

I am new here so go easy but having read through this post, one question that springs to mind is WHY should we want to keep NI when all they've ever done is drain us for cash and been a lead weight around the necks of England for decades.

Isn't it time that the north joined back with the south, after all it's one island, just divide by religion

I'm interested in your views.

Hello there, I'll be able to go fairly easy as I haven't even read the other posts on this. I am a Unionist, which is partly why I support UKIP. If the Scots, Welsh etc want to go their own way that is I guess something we have to accept (subject to the Crown retaining all offshore mineral rights of course!). But the majority in Ulster (aka Northern Ireland) want to stick with us whatever us is and I unreservedly welcome them. To imply that loyalty should be totally disregarded is not honourable in my opinion and I would strongly oppose that. Also not everything revolves around cash and our EU masters have been putting some cash into Ulster for a while & I personally don't think that Ulster is a great drain on England - with the Grammar schools the children are better educated than those in England for example. Perhaps you have some facts & figures which suggest I am wrong on that? I am usually content to be proved wrong if I am indeed wrong!

Quote:

Isn't it time that the north joined back with the south,

Isn't it time that the South joined back with the North? It was the South that separated from 'us' not the other way round & also partially due to the religious divide. But with both Ireland and UK increasingly dominated from Brussels the future question may be whether Ulster wants to withdraw from the EU with Britain/England or stay as a region of the European Union Nation State.

Independent UKIP · 01-08-2006, 02:47 AM

I should add that I am not going to continue debating Northern Ireland, despite my above posting, which was made as a response to a new member of the forum.

Having had a little look at the earlier posts I see there was an apparent divergence of views between Britannist and Ryansoton. 98.7% :wink: of the time I agree with both Britannist and Ryansoton. 96.34% :wink: of the time you agree with each other and 100%

of the time we all want the UK out of the EU.

Britannist · 01-08-2006, 04:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ENGLISH JEW

I am new here so go easy but having read through this post, one question that springs to mind is WHY should we want to keep NI when all they've ever done is drain us for cash and been a lead weight around the necks of England for decades.

Isn't it time that the north joined back with the south, after all it's one island, just divide by religion

I'm interested in your views.

Welcome to the forum. As Independent UKIP said earlier in this thread, the land area now calling itself the Irish Republic left the UK. Consequently, the area of the island of Ireland (which had already been under The Crown for centuries) remained in the UK and became known as Northern Ireland. While the Roman Catholic population of Northern Ireland has grown for the 8 decades (since the rest of the island of Ireland left the UK) the proportion of people in Northern Ireland supporting staying in the UK has not declined. At least 70% of the Northern Irish population favour staying part of the UK (a much higher proportion than in Scotland - according to opinion polls). When all's said and done - you'll find hardly anyone in Northern Ireland - Roman Catholic or Protestant that would vote to give up their British passport. It's about as simple as that.

The UK central government subsidises and funds different parts of the UK - billions are spent on the north-east of England for instance and public money goes into the poor areas of east London.

We do not say that, because it costs the British taxpayer a great deal of money in grants and subsidies, we should make the north-east of England leave the UK or that east London should be given away to a foreign power. So why should she treat Northern Ireland any differently? It is a part of our land and the people of Northern Ireland the same as you or me. It will remain British even if another part of the UK were to quit (the UK).

Let's not forget that Northern Irish taxpayers (both Roman Catholic and Protestant) serve and have served admirably in the British armed forces and both Protestants and Roman Catholics in Northern Ireland pay in (to the UK Treasury) as well as take out. Indeed, with the economic situation better now in Northern Ireland than at certain times in the past, Northern Irish taxpayers are paying in more to the British Treasury and taking out less than before.

It's not fair to use terminology like Northern Ireland has "drained us for a cash" and is a "lead weight". What country with any respect for itself describes or treats a loyal part of its territory and its own kith-and-kin as a "lead weight"? The French don't describe non-mainland Corsica (which has had its own terrorists) as a "lead weight". The Italians don't describe non-mainland Sardinia or Sicily as "draining them for cash" even though both are subsidised from central government. The French and Italians hang on to their non-mainland land territories whether they cost money or not.

And that is what we must and will do with British Northern Ireland. It's about nationality and nation - not money.

ENGLISH JEW · 01-08-2006, 08:08 AM

its a fair point to suggest its about nationality and not cash, however there is a growing resentment to other parts of the ole union within England as England has been stripped of cash for many years by these so called friends.

time is upon us and the UK is spliting up, England has to look after herself. The people of England never asked for devolution but now that its upon us, we must all bind together and make sure that we fight against such evils as the EU.

What we can not do is hold out olive branches for so-called ex-friends and the expense of our own people. It is only a matter of time before Wales and Scotland gain full independence and no one can stop this. I suggest that NI will go the same way.

We have to move forward not back, we can not live in yester year. The Union is dead, long live England.

komerad · 01-08-2006, 11:05 AM

English Jew.
There are no more patriotic people in the UK than found in NI.
There are more Union Flags, St. George's Flags, Red Hand Flags, on display in NI on festive occasions, Public holidays etc, than you will ever see in the rest of the UK put together. Lead weights indeed

ops:
You sure you're not just a wind-up merchant ?:wink:

ENGLISH JEW · 01-08-2006, 11:27 AM

Pal, not winding anyone up.

Britain, the UK is dead, people like UKIP and the rest need to understand this, do not hold onto something that KNOW ONE wants. Do not live in the past, we have to go with what we've got.

How can we still have the UK when Scotland and now Wales are forging ahead with Independence - Please explain that to me

For years and years England's taxpayers have bailed out other parts of the union and enough is enough, how much does NI cost the English Taxpayer and more than half of the people who live there don't want any ties with what you consider the uk.

You people have no idea, in NI they have smaller school class sizes, better public services, small waiting times in NHS hospitals, their kids don't have to pay tution fees, their elderly don't have to sell their homes to fund care and English Taxpayers pay for most of this and in England we don't get any of these services. Per head ( funded mostly by us English ) NI is much better off ( that you could argue is one of the reasons why a lot of them want to hold onto the UK ideal )

No one is saying that these people aren't proud and aren't good, upstanding people but the ties are going to be cut sooner rather than later so NI has two choices, it can either join up with the republic or go it alone. I wonder which one it will take.

Johnny Hates Jazz · 01-08-2006, 12:28 PM

If there was a referendum tomorrow, the poeple of England if not the whole of Great Britain would vote to expell Northern Ireland from the United Kingdom.

After 40 years of the Irish Problem, most of us have simply had enough of all of them.

Hereward · 01-08-2006, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Britannist

Quote:

Originally Posted by ENGLISH JEW

I am new here so go easy but having read through this post, one question that springs to mind is WHY should we want to keep NI when all they've ever done is drain us for cash and been a lead weight around the necks of England for decades.

Isn't it time that the north joined back with the south, after all it's one island, just divide by religion

I'm interested in your views.

Welcome to the forum. As Independent UKIP said earlier in this thread, the land area now calling itself the Irish Republic left the UK. Consequently, the area of the island of Ireland (which had already been under The Crown for centuries) remained in the UK and became known as Northern Ireland. While the Roman Catholic population of Northern Ireland has grown for the 8 decades (since the rest of the island of Ireland left the UK) the proportion of people in Northern Ireland supporting staying in the UK has not declined. At least 70% of the Northern Irish population favour staying part of the UK (a much higher proportion than in Scotland - according to opinion polls). When all's said and done - you'll find hardly anyone in Northern Ireland - Roman Catholic or Protestant that would vote to give up their British passport. It's about as simple as that.

The UK central government subsidises and funds different parts of the UK - billions are spent on the north-east of England for instance and public money goes into the poor areas of east London.

We do not say that, because it costs the British taxpayer a great deal of money in grants and subsidies, we should make the north-east of England leave the UK or that east London should be given away to a foreign power. So why should she treat Northern Ireland any differently? It is a part of our land and the people of Northern Ireland the same as you or me. It will remain British even if another part of the UK were to quit (the UK).

Let's not forget that Northern Irish taxpayers (both Roman Catholic and Protestant) serve and have served admirably in the British armed forces and both Protestants and Roman Catholics in Northern Ireland pay in (to the UK Treasury) as well as take out. Indeed, with the economic situation better now in Northern Ireland than at certain times in the past, Northern Irish taxpayers are paying in more to the British Treasury and taking out less than before.

It's not fair to use terminology like Northern Ireland has "drained us for a cash" and is a "lead weight". What country with any respect for itself describes or treats a loyal part of its territory and its own kith-and-kin as a "lead weight"? The French don't describe non-mainland Corsica (which has had its own terrorists) as a "lead weight". The Italians don't describe non-mainland Sardinia or Sicily as "draining them for cash" even though both are subsidised from central government. The French and Italians hang on to their non-mainland land territories whether they cost money or not.

And that is what we must and will do with British Northern Ireland. It's about nationality and nation - not money.

These matters can be put in perspective if one bears in mind that the population figures are broadly as follows:

1. N Ireland - 1.5 million
2. Wales - 3.5 milion
2. Scotland - 5.0 million
4. England - 50.0 million

There are some who argue that N Ireland, Scotland & Wales individually are the equal of England. Judging by the way they've contrived to obtain power, that might seem so, but it is hardly democratic!

I am sceptical about either the value or the truth of arguments about what other countries are alleged to say or do; I have in mind the assertions:

Quote:

The French don't describe non-mainland Corsica (which has had its own terrorists) as a "lead weight". The Italians don't describe non-mainland Sardinia or Sicily as "draining them for cash" . . .

I can recall chestbeaters here declaiming that we are a nation of child abusers whilst other countries (such as Italy), in marked comparison, 'love & idolise their children.' In reality, there are school age children employed in factory work in parts of Italy, and use of child labour in India and other parts of Asia, and South America is legendary.

To my mind, it seems very difficult to sustain the argument that, despite the relative ampleness of territory and other resources in N Ireland, Scotland & Wales, they are all net recipients of resources on a vastly disproportionate scale from England. Mindful of their boastful aspirations for independence, I think we might reasonably be permitted to describe them as a 'drain' on England and the English, or is this yet another manifestation of the filching of our democracy and freedom of speech - all in the interests of the United Kingdom, you understand?

Mikeuk · 01-08-2006, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by English Democrat

If there was a referendum tomorrow, the poeple of England if not the whole of Great Britain would vote to expell Northern Ireland from the United Kingdom.

After 40 years of the Irish Problem, most of us have simply had enough of all of them.

Utterly pathetic!

Maybe you'd like to expel Brixton and Bradford from the United Kingdom while you're at it?

adrianwainer · 01-08-2006, 06:52 PM

ENGLISH JEW wrote

Quote:

I am new here so go easy but having read through this post, one question that springs to mind is WHY should we want to keep NI when all they've ever done is drain us for cash and been a lead weight around the necks of England for decades.

Isn't it time that the north joined back with the south, after all it's one island, just divide by religion

I'm interested in your views.

Are you Jewish "ENGLISH JEW" and if you are when did your family arrive in the United Kingdom?

Best and Warm Regards
Adrian Wainer

01-08-2006, 08:08 AM	#24 (permalink)
ENGLISH JEW Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: England's Jewel, Chester Posts: 119 Party: English Democrats	its a fair point to suggest its about nationality and not cash, however there is a growing resentment to other parts of the ole union within England as England has been stripped of cash for many years by these so called friends. time is upon us and the UK is spliting up, England has to look after herself. The people of England never asked for devolution but now that its upon us, we must all bind together and make sure that we fight against such evils as the EU. What we can not do is hold out olive branches for so-called ex-friends and the expense of our own people. It is only a matter of time before Wales and Scotland gain full independence and no one can stop this. I suggest that NI will go the same way. We have to move forward not back, we can not live in yester year. The Union is dead, long live England. __________________ Shalom 2nd Gerneration English & Proud This is more than just Politics Its PERSONAL www.justiceforengland.com

01-08-2006, 11:27 AM	#26 (permalink)
ENGLISH JEW Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: England's Jewel, Chester Posts: 119 Party: English Democrats	Pal, not winding anyone up. Britain, the UK is dead, people like UKIP and the rest need to understand this, do not hold onto something that KNOW ONE wants. Do not live in the past, we have to go with what we've got. How can we still have the UK when Scotland and now Wales are forging ahead with Independence - Please explain that to me For years and years England's taxpayers have bailed out other parts of the union and enough is enough, how much does NI cost the English Taxpayer and more than half of the people who live there don't want any ties with what you consider the uk. You people have no idea, in NI they have smaller school class sizes, better public services, small waiting times in NHS hospitals, their kids don't have to pay tution fees, their elderly don't have to sell their homes to fund care and English Taxpayers pay for most of this and in England we don't get any of these services. Per head ( funded mostly by us English ) NI is much better off ( that you could argue is one of the reasons why a lot of them want to hold onto the UK ideal ) No one is saying that these people aren't proud and aren't good, upstanding people but the ties are going to be cut sooner rather than later so NI has two choices, it can either join up with the republic or go it alone. I wonder which one it will take. __________________ Shalom 2nd Gerneration English & Proud This is more than just Politics Its PERSONAL www.justiceforengland.com

01-08-2006, 12:28 PM	#27 (permalink)
Johnny Hates Jazz Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 1,973 Party: English Democrats	If there was a referendum tomorrow, the poeple of England if not the whole of Great Britain would vote to expell Northern Ireland from the United Kingdom. After 40 years of the Irish Problem, most of us have simply had enough of all of them. __________________ *English Democrats SAY NO* To European Union English not British** not European *- It's time to decide at the 2009 European Elections*

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01-08-2006, 02:47 AM	#22 (permalink)
Independent UKIP Uber Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: London Posts: 2,404	I should add that I am not going to continue debating Northern Ireland, despite my above posting, which was made as a response to a new member of the forum. Having had a little look at the earlier posts I see there was an apparent divergence of views between Britannist and Ryansoton. 98.7% :wink: of the time I agree with both Britannist and Ryansoton. 96.34% :wink: of the time you agree with each other and 100% of the time we all want the UK out of the EU.

01-08-2006, 11:05 AM	#25 (permalink)
komerad Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cardiff. S.Wales Posts: 607	English Jew. There are no more patriotic people in the UK than found in NI. There are more Union Flags, St. George's Flags, Red Hand Flags, on display in NI on festive occasions, Public holidays etc, than you will ever see in the rest of the UK put together. Lead weights indeed ops: You sure you're not just a wind-up merchant ?:wink: