progcon.org

Hi C_steam,

I totally understand that, but I hope we would all vote for them if (theoretically) the pledge was cast in stone, as it is our aim to achieve our goals, not play tribalism with the colour of the rosette. I agree it is not going to happen, but we should always vote for the party most likely to actually deliver our core values.

Yes, I 100% agree, this is my point entirely about a cr alliance. No one party will match everyone's needs, but by working together based on a broad overlap of core values, we can actually leverage that diversity instead of seeking to shoe-horn people INTO phpbb_a one-size doesn't quite fit all party.

As you note, no party fits my particular core values (not the full range of beliefs, not even just the core values), so I will try to represent them, but, the big but, I want to do it as part of a united CR, not seek to compete or be viewed as a rival.

Uniting the CR will bring power, I am totally convinced of this. I welcome the arrival of Lechlade members onto the NEC, but UKIP is not the party for me, however, that does not mean that I seek to oppose it, you can hpoefully see, that my proposal to support open primaries between the CR parties will most likely benefit UKIP the most.

We can really show democracy in action, generate masses of positive national and local publicity to put the big three to shame. Only tribalism, rather than a core values drive, will stop it.

To show my total committment to the CR, I would happily take part in the open primaries and then actively campaign for the winning candidate at election time, whether they be a cr independent, ED, UKIP etc.

If everyone else could agree to the same, then we would really be able to challenge the big 3.

So the big question is, can we put aside tribalism and all work to further the CR agenda? I hope the answer is yes, and I would like to see how you all respond to this proposal.

Why would UKIP oppose a system that is innovative, democratic, and likely to benefit them the most? It encourages healthy competition, whilst ensuring the cr parties do not split each other's votes at election time. UKIP could drive this, or it could dismiss the others because it is the biggest of the small parties, but then wouldn't it just be behaving like the big 3?

I am putting together a new forum, decra.org.uk (currently pointing at progcon) to try and bring the CR together to encourage this new alliance and strategy. In this way, I hope we can bring together UKIP, EDP, New party and CR independents INTO phpbb_one cohesive and united unit, to really change the face of British politics.

Percentage

There you go! Talking down to people as ever,from a position of sycophanticly supporting Cameron!

Quite astonishing!

Talk about "digging in your heels"! :roll:

progcon.org

%, are you a plant? Even taking your dislike of me aside, I can't find a single thread here where you have proposed anything to actually help the CR cause.

Percentage

Keep going,only 1400 posts to work through :wink:

Could be a case of;

nehabhikrama-naso-sti
pratyavayato na vidyate

In your endeavour there's no loss or diminution!

progcon.org

OK, but in a bid to keep discussions on topic, do you think you could agree to stop just sniping, and you'll ignore my posts and I'll ignore yours? The aim is to attack the issues, not the man, but you have focussed solely on the latter.

It was Mike who mailed me about reopening discussions, and as you will know we have often not seen eye-to-eye, but it would be hard to argue that we are not both working on a positive agenda of eu withdrawal.

So, I'll make this the last response to you, even if you can't stop yourself, so please excuse me, I am not seeking to be rude by ignoring you from this point forward, but doing so to try and keep the discussions on track.

Percentage

SNIPING (Oxford dictionary) 1 Shoot at someone from a hiding place at long range.2 Criticize in a sly or petty way.

I take it your refering to No 2

There's nothing sly about me old chap,as for petty,sometimes a serious point can be made far more succintly with a quip rather than a drawn out essay,especially on a message board,i'll let others decide on whether at times i'm succesfull at that or not! :wink:

I'll tell you what,i will treat you & your views exactly as i treat everybody elses,on merit,if your after "special treatment" forget it!

Get over it & deal with it!

Christina

Darth Veda strikes again! :shock:

progcon.org

Hi C_Steam

As far as I understand, UKIP doesn't plan to actually change its name with the Electoral Commission, is that correct? It will still be UKIP, but branded as Independence.

Would it not have made more sense to ensure the site was redesigned with the new branding on the day it was announced back in Feb? In fact, is there anything on the official site to indicate a change of branding at all?

Anyone who read the news story (the targetted disaffected Tories, for example) then visited the site for further information would have found no mention of this rebranding.

UKIP still has much to do to begin to convince people that it is not a single issue party. The current FAQ covers many questions, all of them (bar how to join) about EU/Euro etc and the manifesto is from May 2005, not dated at the time of the press release in Feb. It is as though it never happened.

Good luck to the Lechlade two though, and let's hope they can make a positive impact.

Nigel Farage has been impressive on both QT and AQ, with both him and Ann Widdecombe making a lot of sense. Do most people expect Nigel to become leader?

Percentage

Well he did really didn't he?

Take your pick! :wink:

So why the decision not to conform? Egotistical attitude or questioning nature?

In this instance,on past form,that question is a legitimate one!

Mikeuk

Well I'm prepared to concede that anybody who had never previously been a member of the Tory Party might have had a very idealistic view of it gained from Cameron's witterings. This is likely to be shattered at a very early stage.

Like a lot of Tories I joined when I was a teenager and still calling people 'sir' and so forth. This also meant that I was made a fuss of by the old dears. Maybe it was that good start that kept me in the party for 30 years.

If I were to join now, inspired ( ) by the Cameron tripe about the party being reborn and so forth, I doubt I'd last 30 minutes.

The biggest lie of all is this one about 'The Party's Changed'. At least 98% of it is still the same old self-seekers who were in it last year. All that's changed is that they suddenly think Cameron could be some kind of Trojan Horse who is going to get them back INTO phpbb_power.

I've talked to quite a few Tories about all this. Of course a lot of them are anti-Cameron but those who aren't - and they are usually older members - think he's a nice public schoolboy who really shares all their prejudices and reactionary notions.

So who's fooling whom?