Bluemerle

Andrew, they can get as inclusive as they like, but unless they sort out their stance on the EU they will never be in power.

Mark Steyn in The Spectator. Full article posted on Pathetic UKIP inactivity thread.

http://ukipforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=3949

Mikeuk

So what? When I was a Young Conservative branch Chairman we had one branch in our area alone with 1000+ members. If I could take you back to those times and show you just how successful the Conservative Party once was, you would die of shame on your return to the present shambles

UKIP has been going for 10 years. You are the one who claims (disputed) that your party is 300+ years old.

Er, yes. That has been noted, with particular disfavour in the case of Mr Osborne.

Presumably you're too young to remember when the Tories wrecked the economy under Lamont and Lawson. Never again!

Correct.

Right in one. In particular I'm glad to be a million miles away from the gay mafia which has moved in on the Tory Party in recent years.

In my day it was backs to the wall when the Liberals were around. Seems your party is, so to speak, moving in the same circles.

Incidentally, Andrew, I've just been reading your website in which you name 'The Collapse of British Power' as one of your favourite books.

It's one of my favourites too, but you seem to have learnt little from it.

Bluemerle

Mikeuk writes

Those were the good old days. The YCs was the best club to belong to, it was dynamic and we supported our Party through thick and thin. Conservative Future is just a shadow of what the old YCs were. :shock:

Barely Tory

What a load of tosh. The MPs chose Michael Howard who won us one million votes fewer than John Major in 1997. They are far, far more out of touch with the British public than we are.

When the mumbling started against IDS we had a consistent poll lead of 5% (which if you count for the anti-Tory bias in the polling was nearer 9%). We crashed to defeat against an incredibly unpopular Prime Minister with a flattering 3% deficit, largely due to the fact that the Lib Dems and Labour were falling out with each other. Incidentally we only got our share of the vote up by 0.5%.

IDS's problem was not that he wasn't popular - Howard was and is far less popular - but that he wanted to win. The MPs didn't, or at least didn't want to risk getting the same result as in 1997. So they got rid of the gambler IDS and brought in the sure fire loser Howard. And it all went to plan - although I'm sure they were expecting to pick up a few more seats.

Don't kid yourself Andrew. MPs regard us activists as scum. And as long as we continue to let us treat us in the way that they do, I'm not sure that they are far wrong.

mkpdavies

Welcome Barley Tory, you just summed up my feelings on the current state of the Tories to perfection.

Who do you think will take charge of the party now? Kenneth Clarke or David Davis?

I'm guessing the usual supposed euro-sceptic in David Davis, while hoping it will be Clarke so that the vale of eurosceptism is finaly removed, revealing a flabby europhile leadership controling the party.

When are all these so called eurosceptic Tory grass root members going to rise up and take back their party? I still don't see any sign of it happening!

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John Carter

I concur.

I've had this argument with Andrew on the other forum. What he doesn't realise is that the amount of young people rejecting "liberal" values is growing and that the Tories going vote chasing among traditional Labour voters instead of sticking to its principles is alienating a large amount of people.

The Tories are dead and buried until they rediscover Maggie and Norman.

Bluemerle

IDS was preparing a speech at Blackpool saying that he would oppose the Constitution and take Britain out if necessary, but he was leant on and made to change it. Then, of course, the knife went in and he was removed. :twisted:

Barely Tory

Thank you. I'm glad to be here.

Davis. They won't be able to change the rules unless they almost promise to take him on.

Isn't it funny how Clarke puts his name forward when it looks like the great unwashed membership won't vote

It has to be said that Davis probably represents the median opinion in the party. And unlike others he was a Eurosceptic when minister for Europe - so he didn't go native which is the constant temptation (even Tebbit went native when he was in the DTI).


As this is the only way (well, barring earthquake or plague) the Constitution could get through then let's hope not. As long as the Tory machine is anti the constitution then it can't win here.

I don't think a couple of extra UKIP MEPs is worth being tied INTO phpbb_the constitution.

Us grassroots Tories have slowly moved the party INTO phpbb_a more Eurosceptic direction over the last fifteen years. To be honest it can't go much further without public opinion moving first, although it could always go back.

Bluemerle

It would be better that the Tories do not take the lead in the Referendum as it will put a lot of people off voting No.

A coalition as set out in The Times would be better.

"The campaign, which will be called simply No, has raised £500,000 and will be headed by a group of politicians and business leaders, and figures from the arts and diplomatic worlds, rather than a single leader. The backing of the business community will be crucial in the referendum, with each side eager to claim that industry is on its side".

Barely Tory

I think most Tories agree on that. However in 1975 the No campaign had no major party political support and was out-funded and out organised. At least having the Tory organisation around will ensure that you are in with a chance.

Remember the Times likes people like Portillo - who have little reach beyond Central London - and the No campaign is going to need an organisation that no matter how decrepit still has some sort of organisation outside London.