A cost to far

06-04-2005, 10:43 PM

http://www.britainineurope.org.uk/th...s/cost-too-far

basically the article made complete sense to me does anyone have any comments

John Carter · 06-04-2005, 11:26 PM

I just love it when people make me download PDF files without warning.

06-04-2005, 11:28 PM

noted i will give warning in future of PDF files

Intbel · 06-04-2005, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scotgirl

basically the article made complete sense to me does anyone have any comments

Even if, as claimed, there would be no net financial gain to be made by withdrawing from the EU, the main advantage would be the most important of all - self government by an elected government. This is something of more than pure material worth and is something which, with EU membership, we would sacrifice.

That is a sacrifice too far ...

Anthony Butcher · 07-04-2005, 12:22 AM

I won't believe anything that Britain in Europe writes after they claimed that 3 million jobs would be at stake if Britain left the EU. They tried to pretend that Britain trades with the EU (it is of course British companies that trade with other companies and consumers in the EU), and that once we leave that trade would somehow stop.

Intbel · 07-04-2005, 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthony Butcher

I won't believe anything that Britain in Europe writes after they claimed that 3 million jobs would be at stake if Britain left the EU. They tried to pretend that Britain trades with the EU (it is of course British companies that trade with other companies and consumers in the EU), and that once we leave that trade would somehow stop.

Britainineurope is a pro EU thingo which is VERY anti-UKIP.

Its website/domain is registered to:
European Movement,
Dean Bradley House,
52 Horseferry Road
London
SW1P 2AF

07-04-2005, 08:00 AM

Intbel thank you for your comments

i have to the best of my knowledge only rubbished one artice as it was about the BNP and the link was on the BNP website

does anyone else want to comment on the article itsself, bascially i dont tent to rubbish articles because of sourse i will usually try to find some info to show not true

im surprised i havent had any more proving the figures wrong etc

mkpdavies · 07-04-2005, 08:26 AM

It's all ya boo sucks, my figures are right your are wrong.

As yourself why our government, who are so keen on stats and bean counting have not done a full cost/benefit analysis of our membership of the EU. That for me is very telling.

The ascertion that EU regulation is not costing us an absolute fortune is just ridiculous. Large business is hit as I have witnessed myself. Small business is hit, as is witnessed by my friends and family who run it.

20 billion is almost definitley a woeful underestimate, when you consider every business in Britain, both big and small, is now having to mange the ever increasing new regs they have to comply with. It is pure common sense that Civitas are right on that issue.

Quote:

In conclusion, although the net cost (or benefit) of EU regulation is very hard to assess, it is arguable that it is around zero.

That end comment alone shows how ridiculous the whole argument is. Do they think we are blind, stupid or both? Of course the mass of regulation will cost us. the only argument is how much.

Quote:

2. The Common Agricultural Policy

There was no reasoning what-so-ever as to why it does not cost 15 billion a year. Again I suggest you speak with farmers who will tell you how the CAP has ruined them.

Quote:

In fact, according to HM Treasury (European Community Finances, Statement
on the 2004 EC Budget and measures to counter fraud and mismanagement,
April 2004), Britain’s net contribution in 2003 was £3.7 billion, and the
estimated figure for 2004 is £4.2 billion. In the last ten years, Britain’s
average net contribution to the EU budget was £2.6 billion a year, or a
0.25% of GDP.

Ya boo, my figures are right yours are wrong. At least they admit that we are paying BILLIONS, thats thousands of millions INTO phpbb_the EU. That figure is also GUARANTEED to go up.

Quote:

Again, Britain would not save all of this if we left the EU. Both Norway and
Switzerland, which are not members of the EU, make contributions to the EU
budget in order to gain free access to the EU’s single market. Norway pays
around 220 million euros a year to the EU, while the Swiss have agreed to
pay 1 billion Swiss francs over 5 years, which works out at around130 million euros a year.

Yep and we would inititaly, purley to keep things sweet during trasnsition. After that we will take teh position of the rest of the world and won't accept that we have to pay to access markets. That's blackmail of the worst kind. Do you actually support this position?

Quote:

The source for this scarcely credible claim is a study by the notoriously anti-European Institute of Directors.

A lie. They are anti-EU and rubbishing another argument just because it is not from your camp, is as you say scotgirl, not brilliant.

Quote:

Yet economic theory suggests that eliminating
trade barriers lowers prices, increases economic welfare, boosts competition,
enables economies to benefit from greater specialisation and economies of
scale and spreads new productivity-enhancing technologies, all of which boost
economic growth. A free-market think-tank like Civitas could surely not
disagree with this.

What has this got to do with being part of the EU? We want free trade! The way they try to make EU=Free trade and the only way to free trade really does show the lack of argument. Is this really the best they can do?

Quote:

Through the EU, British business has tariff-free access to 450 million
consumers – the largest and richest single market in the world. Europe is our
biggest market: 52% of our trade is with the EU. 750,000 British-based
companies now trade with Europe.
3.5 million British jobs are linked to our exports to the EU, of which 2 million
are in manufacturing.

The lies continue. Again making out that British companies will stop trading with EU companies if they pulled out. Simply scare mongering of the worst kind. The fact they are talking about manufacturing trade which is a tiny amount of the U.K's economy, is a terrible attempt to con the reader. Why are they not honest and admit that 10% of our economy relies on EU trade. 80% is internal! 10% the rest of the world.

Quote:

The single market makes it easier for British businesses to export to their
biggest market. The creation of the single market has cut company overheads
by removing many of the costs and much of the red tape associated with
exporting to EU countries.

Did they say that with a straight face?

Quote:

The study claims that access to the single market is only one of the reasons
why foreign companies invest in Britain and that if the UK left the EU “the
impact on inward investment is likely to be neutral”.

How many more times do we have to listen to this lie that this isn't the case? Britain has ALWAYS been a global trading nation, we have never needed and still do not need to be part of the EU to invest in the single market. We attract global business because we speak English, have a reliable work force and great global contacts and links.

We have turned our back on the world, to favour the protectionist EU. This is a disgrace that we need to rectify quickly. If tha means shifting some of our trade back to our Common Wealth partners and developing nations, then so be it.

If we leave the EU, we will be better off. Simple as that!

UKIP MAN · 07-04-2005, 08:30 AM

scotgirl wrote:

Quote:

basically the article made complete sense to me does anyone have any comments

No Comment. :evil:

Ruled By The European Union, Tut Tut, No way hosse.

Anthony Butcher · 07-04-2005, 12:13 PM

On the issue of our contributions, notice that Britain in Europe is trying to use the £2.6 Billion number, because that is their calculated average for the last ten years. UKIP has used the number that we paid last year, which is £4.3 Billion.

The French are now calling for our rebate to be scrapped, which will cost us a further £3 Billion.

On top of that, the EU wants to increase the payments by all member states from 0.93% to 1.14% to cover the new member states. That would cost us an extra £2.7 Billion per year. Strangely enough the French object to that one because it will cost them money, and not just us.

So, our net tax payment at the moment is £4.3 Billion, but in a few years it will almost certainly rise to £10 Billion, or around £450 for every household in Britain every year.

And that is just the direct cost.

06-04-2005, 10:43 PM	#1 (permalink)
Guest Posts: n/a	A cost to far http://www.britainineurope.org.uk/th...s/cost-too-far basically the article made complete sense to me does anyone have any comments

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06-04-2005, 11:26 PM	#2 (permalink)
John Carter Uber Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: On Sabbatical Posts: 5,110	I just love it when people make me download PDF files without warning.

06-04-2005, 11:28 PM	#3 (permalink)
Guest Posts: n/a	noted i will give warning in future of PDF files

07-04-2005, 12:22 AM	#5 (permalink)
Anthony Butcher Administrator Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Long Ashton, Bristol Posts: 10,199 Party: None	I won't believe anything that Britain in Europe writes after they claimed that 3 million jobs would be at stake if Britain left the EU. They tried to pretend that Britain trades with the EU (it is of course British companies that trade with other companies and consumers in the EU), and that once we leave that trade would somehow stop.

07-04-2005, 08:00 AM	#7 (permalink)
Guest Posts: n/a	Intbel thank you for your comments i have to the best of my knowledge only rubbished one artice as it was about the BNP and the link was on the BNP website does anyone else want to comment on the article itsself, bascially i dont tent to rubbish articles because of sourse i will usually try to find some info to show not true im surprised i havent had any more proving the figures wrong etc

07-04-2005, 12:13 PM	#10 (permalink)
Anthony Butcher Administrator Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Long Ashton, Bristol Posts: 10,199 Party: None	On the issue of our contributions, notice that Britain in Europe is trying to use the £2.6 Billion number, because that is their calculated average for the last ten years. UKIP has used the number that we paid last year, which is £4.3 Billion. The French are now calling for our rebate to be scrapped, which will cost us a further £3 Billion. On top of that, the EU wants to increase the payments by all member states from 0.93% to 1.14% to cover the new member states. That would cost us an extra £2.7 Billion per year. Strangely enough the French object to that one because it will cost them money, and not just us. So, our net tax payment at the moment is £4.3 Billion, but in a few years it will almost certainly rise to £10 Billion, or around £450 for every household in Britain every year. And that is just the direct cost.