Black Watch Party to stand?

Bodach · 28-11-2004, 06:31 PM

A story in the Scottish Sunday Times tells of how 13 candidates will be standing at the general election in an effort to save the Black Watch. They will be placed in the constituencies where they can do the most damage - i.e. Gordon Brown's, John Reid's and Adam Ingram's. Worth keeping an eye on this one.
If it looks like another labour landslide many voters might choose this as the most vicious way to stick two fingers up to Blair. So much a part of society are the regiments in Scotland that, if this story is true, candidates would draw votes not only from Labour but all the parties. If this goes ahead it will give the bookies a bit of overtime working out the impact in the 13 constituencies.
A separate campaign including TV advertising is being planned with support from Scottish stars of the big and small screens - Sean Connery is expected to signal his support.
There is momentum behind the Black Watch campaign and a tangible anger in Scotland.

mkpdavies · 28-11-2004, 06:38 PM

Perhaps UKIP should back them? I am not normaly for stepping aside for other parties, but if the 13 seats are strong Labour seats, then would we have any chance in them? Perhaps we could do real damage to the Labour vote if all of the other parties got behind the BW and helped put a single anti-Labour candidate in each of those seats.

Or should we just look after ourselves and give the people an Anti-EU choice everywhere?

I'm undecided at the moment. People of the forum, help me make my mind up!

Anthony Butcher · 28-11-2004, 06:43 PM

How about UKIP promise to keep all of the named regiments? The issue really is only with naming, and I don't how Labour have made such a balls up of it. A single battalion regiment isn't a problem; it is just a name. And if they want to group battalions, then just call it a brigade instead. Big deal.

And if a regimental name provides our lads and lasses in the armed forces with a feeling of pride and history, then we should keep it. It's not like the armed forces have much else to cheer about at the moment.

C_steam · 28-11-2004, 06:44 PM

In essence, a fine idea but it could be seen as a precedent - should UKIP stand aside in all constituencies where a single anti-labour candidate would make real damage?

Secondly, it could be seen as bandwagon jumping.

On the other hand, Scotland, and the BW candidates, could be viewed as a special case. Perhaps a compromise is not to field a candidate rather than to overtly support. A simple letter explaining this position would suffice, based on the fact that UKIP supports a strong armed forces and recognises the role and contribution of the regimental system.

Anthony Butcher · 30-11-2004, 03:23 AM

Telegraph Article

Quote:

Geoff Hoon, the Defence Secretary, was last night accused of contempt for the tradition of the Black Watch after belittling the campaign to save the historic regiment.

Mr Hoon recalled the words of a 19th century predecessor to pour scorn on Black Watch defenders for seemingly putting sentiment above the national interest.

Quote:

Jeff Duncan, of the Save the Scottish Regiments Campaign, condemned Mr Hoon as a "fumbling idiot" who was being "incredibly insensitive" at a time when the Black Watch were serving in Iraq.

"He clearly doesn't understand the depth of feeling and the hundreds of years of tradition and service that many families have given to these regiments," said Mr Duncan.

Brigadier Garry Barnett, the chairman of the Black Watch campaign committee and the Colonel of the Regiment until he retired last year, said: "These are tribal regiments and one of the reasons that they are so successful when they go to war is that the soldiers believe in their regiments. The links to their home areas and their families contributes to their operational success."

mkpdavies · 30-11-2004, 07:55 AM

They don't call him Buff Hoon for nothing you know. He has a real air of self-importance about him. I lost all respect for him when he went along with Blairs lie campaign over Iraq.

Free UK · 30-11-2004, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bodach

Sean Connery is expected to signal his support.
There is momentum behind the Black Watch campaign and a tangible anger in Scotland.

Isn't Sean Connery backing the SNP?

mkpdavies · 30-11-2004, 10:58 AM

He always did do. One less vote for them it seems. I can really see this cause doing well though. I hope is does real damage to Labour, as it is Labour who deserve to be punished for their contempt of our fighting forces. I am still leaning towards UKIP signaling their support for this cause by withdrawing candidates in that area. It's not like we are supporting a party as such, but a very noble cause!

Bodach · 30-11-2004, 04:10 PM

Headlines on one of the tabloids here today Scottish Daily Express was about Blair making soothing noises about the Black Watch - I didn't bother reading any further. I remember when a similar situation when a previous administration, John Major (I think) made promises about the Gordon Highlanders and the Queen's Own. There was a major row and some military types in Aberdeenshire threatened a candidate at a by-election. They listened to promises that never materialised and relented.
The Gordons and the Queens Own became one regiment and many say that the new creation never equalled the old.
So if this campaign does materialis INTO phpbb_candidates they will have to watch for false promises.

Sean Connery wasn't happy with the old SNP leadership but is now back in line I think with the return to power of Alec Salmond but as the press cutting from Anthony shows this one goes deeper than mere politics - it is tribal yes - the sort of question that can make millions of Scots feel like one tribe.

lazyliberal · 30-11-2004, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkpdavies

Perhaps UKIP should back them?

pardon my bluntness, but UKIP don't tend to do so well in Scotland anyway do they? 6th place there in the Europeans if I recall...

28-11-2004, 06:31 PM	#1 (permalink)
Bodach Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Scotland - Alba Posts: 92	Black Watch Party to stand? A story in the Scottish Sunday Times tells of how 13 candidates will be standing at the general election in an effort to save the Black Watch. They will be placed in the constituencies where they can do the most damage - i.e. Gordon Brown's, John Reid's and Adam Ingram's. Worth keeping an eye on this one. If it looks like another labour landslide many voters might choose this as the most vicious way to stick two fingers up to Blair. So much a part of society are the regiments in Scotland that, if this story is true, candidates would draw votes not only from Labour but all the parties. If this goes ahead it will give the bookies a bit of overtime working out the impact in the 13 constituencies. A separate campaign including TV advertising is being planned with support from Scottish stars of the big and small screens - Sean Connery is expected to signal his support. There is momentum behind the Black Watch campaign and a tangible anger in Scotland.

28-11-2004, 06:38 PM	#2 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 30,604	Perhaps UKIP should back them? I am not normaly for stepping aside for other parties, but if the 13 seats are strong Labour seats, then would we have any chance in them? Perhaps we could do real damage to the Labour vote if all of the other parties got behind the BW and helped put a single anti-Labour candidate in each of those seats. Or should we just look after ourselves and give the people an Anti-EU choice everywhere? I'm undecided at the moment. People of the forum, help me make my mind up! __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

30-11-2004, 07:55 AM	#6 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 30,604	They don't call him Buff Hoon for nothing you know. He has a real air of self-importance about him. I lost all respect for him when he went along with Blairs lie campaign over Iraq. __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

30-11-2004, 10:58 AM	#8 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 30,604	He always did do. One less vote for them it seems. I can really see this cause doing well though. I hope is does real damage to Labour, as it is Labour who deserve to be punished for their contempt of our fighting forces. I am still leaning towards UKIP signaling their support for this cause by withdrawing candidates in that area. It's not like we are supporting a party as such, but a very noble cause! __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

28-11-2004, 06:43 PM	#3 (permalink)
Anthony Butcher Administrator Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Long Ashton, Bristol Posts: 9,823 Party: None	How about UKIP promise to keep all of the named regiments? The issue really is only with naming, and I don't how Labour have made such a balls up of it. A single battalion regiment isn't a problem; it is just a name. And if they want to group battalions, then just call it a brigade instead. Big deal. And if a regimental name provides our lads and lasses in the armed forces with a feeling of pride and history, then we should keep it. It's not like the armed forces have much else to cheer about at the moment.

28-11-2004, 06:44 PM	#4 (permalink)
C_steam Super Moderator Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Paddling up 5hit creek..... Posts: 7,509	In essence, a fine idea but it could be seen as a precedent - should UKIP stand aside in all constituencies where a single anti-labour candidate would make real damage? Secondly, it could be seen as bandwagon jumping. On the other hand, Scotland, and the BW candidates, could be viewed as a special case. Perhaps a compromise is not to field a candidate rather than to overtly support. A simple letter explaining this position would suffice, based on the fact that UKIP supports a strong armed forces and recognises the role and contribution of the regimental system.

30-11-2004, 04:10 PM	#9 (permalink)
Bodach Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Scotland - Alba Posts: 92	Headlines on one of the tabloids here today Scottish Daily Express was about Blair making soothing noises about the Black Watch - I didn't bother reading any further. I remember when a similar situation when a previous administration, John Major (I think) made promises about the Gordon Highlanders and the Queen's Own. There was a major row and some military types in Aberdeenshire threatened a candidate at a by-election. They listened to promises that never materialised and relented. The Gordons and the Queens Own became one regiment and many say that the new creation never equalled the old. So if this campaign does materialis INTO phpbb_candidates they will have to watch for false promises. Sean Connery wasn't happy with the old SNP leadership but is now back in line I think with the return to power of Alec Salmond but as the press cutting from Anthony shows this one goes deeper than mere politics - it is tribal yes - the sort of question that can make millions of Scots feel like one tribe.