Even after hunt ban, the Tories are losing the scent

Anthony Butcher · 26-11-2004, 01:57 AM

Quote:

Conservatives these days must envy Sisyphus. That poor fellow was doomed to spend all eternity rolling an enormous boulder up a hill only to see it roll back down again as soon as it approached the summit. Today's Tories are even worse off. They seem unable to push their boulder within sight of the summit.

Three years ago the Conservatives suffered one of their worst-ever election defeats, winning only 33 per cent of the popular vote. Today, despite much heaving and groaning, they are no better off than they were then. Indeed, according to YouGov's monthly survey for The Telegraph, support for the Tories has actually fallen slightly to 32 per cent.

The Queen's Speech and the Conservatives' ferocious parliamentary attack on it have evidently made little difference. Labour's lead over the Tories has narrowed from four points last month to three points now but the change is well within the range of normal sampling errors.

Nigel Garage · 26-11-2004, 10:29 AM

There was a time when the Conservatives meant something. Now they're just a less interesting Labour party.

Most people don't realise that the reason the two parties are so similar, is that the really important decisions are now made elsewhere. The only real alternative is a party that will take back the decision-making powers from Brussels - UKIP.

The Tories may be the oldest political party in the world, but when the reason for your existence is gone there's no point in prolonging the pain.

I believe Kilroy was right - UKIP has to put the Tories out of their misery.

GTFC_Adam · 27-11-2004, 01:17 PM

Absolutely.

I think Ancram's rather vague policies on "bringing powers back from Brussels" are laughable and show how desperately they are trying to compete with us.

People will vote for us because we will bring ALL powers back. If the Tories want to continue their sneak towards the left, that is up to them. But we have a clear agenda that spells out what we will do.

johnwest · 28-11-2004, 01:07 PM

Let the Tories continue marching towards the edge of the cliff. They know that we can't stay in the EU without giving up more and more powers to Brussels. The EU is fast heading towards a federal Europe. If we stay in we will lose our freedom. It is as simple as that.

Mystic Taboo · 02-12-2004, 11:30 AM

Labour stole the Tories clothes but there is a great deal of difference between them, Labour under Brown have half-heartedly gone along with free market social economics are now back to the good old days of tax and spend wheras the Tories are anti-Tax, on social issues you only need to speak to their members to understand that they are still very punishment orientated socially conservatibve and very non-politically correct. The main problem is that they have too many modernising wets who should be in the Liberal Democrats or at least shouldnt be in central office.

The majority of young Conservatives - the next generation if you will are very, very anti-european.

mkpdavies · 02-12-2004, 11:35 AM

So when are we going to see some results of this? I would hope a party represents its members view, yet Howard says he believes we should be playing an active role in the EU. When are the young Conservatives going to knock his door and tell him in no uncertain terms that they are not going to accept this anymore. Sorry but the answer is never, because the Tories have far too many people who want to stay in the EU. Indeed they have rabid Europhiles such as Hesletine, Clarke and Redwood (he said yes to Maastricht) who would cause the party to split if you did.

There is only one party with the balls to take us out of the EU, and that is UKIP.

Mystic Taboo · 02-12-2004, 11:40 AM

Yesterdays men. Hesletine and Clarke are bit players and Redwood, well 'shadow minister for deregulation' says it all really.

I agree the Tories need to be braver its no good trying to sit on the middle ground, Bush won by appealing to his supporters i dont see why the Tories dont try to instead of wishy washying about.

mkpdavies · 02-12-2004, 12:45 PM

The only words I want to hear from the Tories are:

We promise to pull the UK out of the EU. We realise the British people were mislead INTO phpbb_thinking the common market was all about trade, and that successive governments have given away power and controls that they should not have. We will work for an amicable divorce from the EU and the establishment of a free trade agreement, which is what we thought we had signed up to anyway.

Sorry, but if you think that will ever happen, then I have some beachside property I would like to sell you in the Gobi desert.

Jaizi · 20-12-2004, 05:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mystic Taboo

Labour stole the Tories clothes but there is a great deal of difference between them, Labour under Brown have half-heartedly gone along with free market social economics are now back to the good old days of tax and spend wheras the Tories are anti-Tax, on social issues you only need to speak to their members to understand that they are still very punishment orientated socially conservatibve and very non-politically correct. The main problem is that they have too many modernising wets who should be in the Liberal Democrats or at least shouldnt be in central office.

I think that's a very important point. I wonder if voters are not so much apathetic as disorientated. There you are thinking you're a natural Tory or a natural Labour supporter and you find the Tory party and Labour don't remotely stand for what you believe in. Politics has got to return to the hands of the people of this country not the increasingly deluded in the Westminster bunker. While 45% or so of the vote went to NL, low turn-out meant that only 22% of the entire electorate voted them in. That is not a mandate and given the ghastly things they are doing to the country may in itself speak for the need for urgent reform of the electoral system. The point is 78% of voters did not vote for Blair. They're looking for someone to vote for? You know what they say about nature abhorring a vacuum.

02-12-2004, 11:35 AM	#6 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 30,604	So when are we going to see some results of this? I would hope a party represents its members view, yet Howard says he believes we should be playing an active role in the EU. When are the young Conservatives going to knock his door and tell him in no uncertain terms that they are not going to accept this anymore. Sorry but the answer is never, because the Tories have far too many people who want to stay in the EU. Indeed they have rabid Europhiles such as Hesletine, Clarke and Redwood (he said yes to Maastricht) who would cause the party to split if you did. There is only one party with the balls to take us out of the EU, and that is UKIP. __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

02-12-2004, 12:45 PM	#8 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 30,604	The only words I want to hear from the Tories are: We promise to pull the UK out of the EU. We realise the British people were mislead INTO phpbb_thinking the common market was all about trade, and that successive governments have given away power and controls that they should not have. We will work for an amicable divorce from the EU and the establishment of a free trade agreement, which is what we thought we had signed up to anyway. Sorry, but if you think that will ever happen, then I have some beachside property I would like to sell you in the Gobi desert. __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

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26-11-2004, 10:29 AM	#2 (permalink)
Nigel Garage Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Ashford Posts: 557	There was a time when the Conservatives meant something. Now they're just a less interesting Labour party. Most people don't realise that the reason the two parties are so similar, is that the really important decisions are now made elsewhere. The only real alternative is a party that will take back the decision-making powers from Brussels - UKIP. The Tories may be the oldest political party in the world, but when the reason for your existence is gone there's no point in prolonging the pain. I believe Kilroy was right - UKIP has to put the Tories out of their misery.

27-11-2004, 01:17 PM	#3 (permalink)
GTFC_Adam Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Grimsby Posts: 276	Absolutely. I think Ancram's rather vague policies on "bringing powers back from Brussels" are laughable and show how desperately they are trying to compete with us. People will vote for us because we will bring ALL powers back. If the Tories want to continue their sneak towards the left, that is up to them. But we have a clear agenda that spells out what we will do.

28-11-2004, 01:07 PM	#4 (permalink)
johnwest Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Suffolk Posts: 827 Party: UKIP	Let the Tories continue marching towards the edge of the cliff. They know that we can't stay in the EU without giving up more and more powers to Brussels. The EU is fast heading towards a federal Europe. If we stay in we will lose our freedom. It is as simple as that.

02-12-2004, 11:30 AM	#5 (permalink)
Mystic Taboo Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 32	Labour stole the Tories clothes but there is a great deal of difference between them, Labour under Brown have half-heartedly gone along with free market social economics are now back to the good old days of tax and spend wheras the Tories are anti-Tax, on social issues you only need to speak to their members to understand that they are still very punishment orientated socially conservatibve and very non-politically correct. The main problem is that they have too many modernising wets who should be in the Liberal Democrats or at least shouldnt be in central office. The majority of young Conservatives - the next generation if you will are very, very anti-european.

02-12-2004, 11:40 AM	#7 (permalink)
Mystic Taboo Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 32	Yesterdays men. Hesletine and Clarke are bit players and Redwood, well 'shadow minister for deregulation' says it all really. I agree the Tories need to be braver its no good trying to sit on the middle ground, Bush won by appealing to his supporters i dont see why the Tories dont try to instead of wishy washying about.