Extradition from UK to Canada

**Keyser Soze** · 02-12-2008 11:49 PM

I have been in a similar Border/entry/exit situation a few times believe it or not.
Depart the US to the UK and you will have no problem im sure.
Your passport will be checked at the airline checkin desk and then once more and finally on boarding the UK flight but these are just cursory checks,a glimps or two thats all.(they are not interested in those who are leaving the US afterall.)
Just go,and merry Christmas and I hope your MIL is ok too.
Lets know how you do,tell everyone Keyser Soze says hello.
In the event of a problem....you are totally ignorant of the charge and thought it was resolved....

**73wanab** · 03-12-2008 01:04 AM

Appreciate your candor on the subject. Have no worries leaving the US. It's when I land at Gatwick that I have concerns! Just what I need upon arrival, sorry sir, your under arrest for some alledged crime with ours buds the Canadians, who say you may have violated their laws even though you haven't been convicted of anything, here's your cell with Mr. Ben Dover (no KY gel supplied) while we take 2 years to finish the extradition paperwork to get you there. Oh, by the way, have a nice day and thank you for visiting the United Kingdom!

**Keyser Soze** · 03-12-2008 01:22 AM

You are over reacting,dont place too much importance on this case.In the run of things its like a kid stealing an apple from a neighbours tree,honestly.
More than 97% of crimes do not exist on worldwide systems.
Your "offence"is a very minor one in todays gameplay.
You are making far too much of your offence,lighten up,freekin murderers and terrorists just waltz thru these bozos each day.
Of course you can always go for a new passport,if the MIL has time to wait for you,but, you will still have to go thru security.
Go for it,you will be ok,both ways.

**youcanhandlethetruth** · 03-12-2008 04:35 AM

Originally Posted by 73wanab

Live in the US, do have a concealed weapons permit in Arizona and always carry a firearm when on a long trip. Crossed Canadian border with hidden firearm to pick up a boat. Wasn't going to be in Canada more than 30 minutes. You guessed it, got caught. Arrested and released, their mistake. Picked up boat and crossed back into the US. Have not returned since but do have an outstanding arrest warrant in Canada. Mother-in-Law dying in England but don't know if I will be arrested and deported if I go to England and visit her as Canada is a Commonwealth country. Any thoughts?

This is most interesting indeed:

What Are the Gun Laws in Arizona?

Handguns: Permit to purchase handgun? No
OK.

Possession:No state permit is required to possess a shotgun, rifle or handgun
OK.

Carrying: No person shall carry a firearm "concealed on his person."

OH !?

Of course, it does say:
"Caution: This summary is meant for general purposes only. Firearm laws frequently change and the following answers may not reflect changes in the laws."

But what was almost the very first(2nd) thing you said ?
"DO have a concealed weapons permit in Arizona" ?

Hmmm, why be so defensive so early, and why emphasize "do have a" when you could have said "have a ".... ?

And why is it relavant anyway ?
Especially if you are leaving the state ?
Why are Arizona state laws relevant to hand-guns laws at airports in Canada/England and why is that relevant to your warrant ?
And why risk taking a big gun across the border to pick up a "boat" ?
You say "always carry a firearm when on a long trip" but that it only took you 30 minutes ? (i.e. in and out ?)

Are you sure you're telling us the whole story here ?

How do you even know there is a warrant and it "Took them almost a year to do it." ?
Presumably they issued the warrant after they let you go and then realized the mistake ?
But you said "they charged me and issued the warrant !". (i.e all at the same time ?)

Presumably "Even my Canadian attorney can't give me a definitive answer" means you're still in contact with him ?
Why is your Canadian Attorney handling legal stuff for you if he knows(you say he can't advise you) there is a warrant against you by the Canadian govt ?
Wouldn't the Canadian authorites think of checking your solicitors financial records if they wanted to trace you ?

Your Canadian attorney could not convince the crown that it would be pointless to pursue the case but you were arrested and released on bail due to an "internal mistake" ?

And he said you "would not be returning to Canada to face charges" but you "Would have been sitting in jail the whole time" ?
Are you sure that wasn't a freudian slip becasue of a serious crime you've committed ?

And your statement:
"sorry sir, your under arrest for some alledged crime with ours buds the Canadians, who say you may have violated their laws even though you haven't been convicted of anything"

Why not just say warrant instead of "alleged crime" ? Isn't that what it is ?
Or are you trying to convince us you've done nothing wrong ?

Mother-in-Law dying in England ?

I'm not saying I don't believe you(I may be wrong) but your story has a very fishy feel to it indeed. Are you HIDING something here ?

Let me guess, you're not using a dodgy cover story to bring guns or drugs into the UK are you ?
On the run for a serious gun crime ?

**John Connor** · 03-12-2008 06:30 AM

Originally Posted by youcanhandlethetruth

Carrying: No person shall carry a firearm "concealed on his person."

OH !?

No person shall carry a firearm "concealed on his person"... ...unless he has a permit. Which are easy to obtain since AZ is a "shall issue" state.

Concealed carry in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A shall-issue jurisdiction, within the context of gun law, is one that requires a permit to carry a concealed handgun, but where the granting of such permits is subject only to meeting certain criteria laid out in the law; the granting authority has no discretion in the awarding of the permits. Such laws typically state that a granting authority shall issue a permit if the criteria are met, as opposed to laws where the authority may-issue a permit at their discretion.

Typical permit requirements include residency, minimum age, submitting fingerprints, passing a background check, attending a certified handgun/firearms safety class, participating in a range check/qualification before a certified trainer (for demonstrating safe firearms handling and practical proficiency), and paying the required fee (if any)

Note that requiring a "concealed carry" permit does not mean that you can't carry a gun at all without a permit - "open carry" (i.e. gun fully visible, perhaps in a cowboy-style holster) is often permitted with no licence required at all. AZ is an open carry state - you only need a permit to carry your gun if it's "concealed".

To the OP: There's no way on earth the UK is going to arrest a visiting US citizen and extradite them to Canada. Just not going to happen, since we kowtow to the US government at every available opportunity.

**John Connor** · 03-12-2008 06:33 AM

Oh, and if you're convicted of murder here you only get a couple of hours of community service. As long as you haven't committed the cardinal sin and not paid your taxes, you'll be fine.

**youcanhandlethetruth** · 03-12-2008 03:21 PM

My mistake.

Well pointed out John thanks.

If I'd have kept reading my own link I'd have seen myself, it said:
"The Department of Public Safety shall issue a permit to carry a concealed weapon to a resident of the state"

Fair enough he's got a permit in Arizona then - cross that one off.
It may not be relevant if he's wanted in Canada but there you go.....

You think his story is totally believable ?
I don't - not yet anyway.

**John Connor** · 03-12-2008 03:52 PM

Originally Posted by youcanhandlethetruth

You think his story is totally believable ?

No, not at all. I don't believe that anyone would return to the US once they'd finally managed to escape to Canada.

The OP should be very, very careful - that AZ concealed carry permit isn't recognised by all states. For example, stray into Wisconsin or Illinois with a concealed weapon under an AZ permit and you're going to be had for firearms offences. I'm sure nobody needs to be reminded that you don't want to be getting had for that in the US at the moment (unless you're really, really into gay gang bangs).

**73wanab** · 03-12-2008 05:19 PM

I’ll answer your questions point by point

No person shall carry a firearm "concealed on his person"
... ...unless he has a permit. Do have a permit

Hmmm, why be so defensive so early, and why emphasize "do have a" when you could have said "have a ".... ?
Wasn’t being defensive, just putting the info out there so there would be no confusion

And why is it relavant anyway ?
Especially if you are leaving the state ?
Arizona has CCW reciprocal agreements with 31 other states which means it is legal for a CCW holder from Arizona to carry in those states

Why are Arizona state laws relevant to hand-guns laws at airports in Canada/England and why is that relevant to your warrant ?
It’s not. Didn’t say I was at an airport

And why risk taking a big gun across the border to pick up a "boat" ?
Who said it was big? I had crossed seven states over three days. I realize that not everyone likes guns, owns guns or believes they should even be legal, but I do and I exercise my right to own and carry one, especially when traveling 1300 miles one way.

You say "always carry a firearm when on a long trip" but that it only took you 30 minutes ? (i.e. in and out ?)
Use some brains here, Arizona to Toronto Canada. 1300 miles one way!

Are you sure you're telling us the whole story here ?
Are you listening here?

How do you even know there is a warrant and it "Took them almost a year to do it." ?
The first thing I did when I arrived back in AZ was to hire an attorney in Canada to try to resolve the matter. The incident happened in Oct. 2007. The legal system took 11 months to finally bring the case to a hearing when the arrest warrant was issued since I was not present at the hearing.

Presumably they issued the warrant after they let you go and then realized the mistake ?
Obviously. I was let out on bail the same morning after being arrested. Turns out there was a new law that had been enacted only a few weeks earlier that should have kept me incarcerated until the actual trial.
But you said "they charged me and issued the warrant !". (i.e all at the same time ?)
Was charged for bringing a forbidden firearm into Canada. Warrant was issued 11 months later for my arrest since they can’t have a trial without me being present.

Presumably "Even my Canadian attorney can't give me a definitive answer" means you're still in contact with him ?
Yes, her.

Why is your Canadian Attorney handling legal stuff for you if he knows(you say he can't advise you) there is a warrant against you by the Canadian govt ?
Wouldn't the Canadian authorites think of checking your solicitors financial records if they wanted to trace you ?

I’m going to assume you are in Britain. Why wouldn’t my Canadian attorney still be handling the case for me? Warrant or no warrant, there is attorney client privilege. I don’t know about in Britain, but we do have certain rights afford to us and on of those is the attorney client relationship. Heaven forbid the day the Gov starts knocking down the doors of your attorney to track you ass down.

Your Canadian attorney could not convince the crown that it would be pointless to pursue the case but you were arrested and released on bail due to an "internal mistake" ?
Border agent’s mistake. Didn’t know the new law. Prosecutor was not happy.

And he said you "would not be returning to Canada to face charges" but you "Would have been sitting in jail the whole time" ?
Are you sure that wasn't a freudian slip becasue of a serious crime you've committed ?
Boy you got a problem! New law REQUIRES that anyone arrested for carry a forbidden weapon across the border to be held without bail until time of trial. That would have been 11 months. Yes, Canada does consider this a serious crime. If you are implying that there is something else involved here, there is not.

And your statement:
"sorry sir, your under arrest for some alleged crime with ours buds the Canadians, who say you may have violated their laws even though you haven't been convicted of anything"

Why not just say warrant instead of "alleged crime" ? Isn't that what it is ?
Or are you trying to convince us you've done nothing wrong ?
It is an alleged crime since there has been no trial and no conviction. Innocent till proven guilty. Interesting concept, ever heard of it? Of course I did something wrong. It’s obvious I did something wrong or I wouldn’t have been arrested!

Mother-in-Law dying in England ?

WTF! Yes

I'm not saying I don't believe you(I may be wrong) but your story has a very fishy feel to it indeed. Are you HIDING something here ?

Don’t BS me with that statement. The only thing I’m hiding here is myself from the Canadian authorities.

Let me guess, you're not using a dodgy cover story to bring guns or drugs into the UK are you ?
On the run for a serious gun crime ?

You have way to much time on your hands to make idiotic statements like that.
I got on this forum to see in there would be any useful information that I could use that might be helpful. If you want to flame me for making a stupid mistake, so be it.

**youcanhandlethetruth** · 04-12-2008 12:44 AM

Thanks for your reply wanab.
I guess whether I believe you or not doesn't matter, but for what it's worth I'm starting to.
You see I'd like to help you of course and do have a little information that might help.
But I can't til I think you're totally genuine(you sound genuine enough for sure) and not a great actor with an ulterior motive. Hope you understand.
May I reply again..... ? (last round of questions I promise)

Originally Posted by 73wanab

I’ll answer your questions point by point
No person shall carry a firearm "concealed on his person"
... ...unless he has a permit. Do have a permit

Agreed.

Originally Posted by 73wanab

Hmmm, why be so defensive so early, and why emphasize "do have a" when you could have said "have a ".... ?
Wasn’t being defensive, just putting the info out there so there would be no confusion

Fair enough.

Originally Posted by 73wanab

And why is it relavant anyway ?
Especially if you are leaving the state ?
Arizona has CCW reciprocal agreements with 31 other states which means it is legal for a CCW holder from Arizona to carry in those states

Fair enough.

Originally Posted by 73wanab

Why are Arizona state laws relevant to hand-guns laws at airports in Canada/England and why is that relevant to your warrant ?
It’s not. Didn’t say I was at an airport

My mistake and wrong assumption.

Originally Posted by 73wanab

And why risk taking a big gun across the border to pick up a "boat" ?
Who said it was big? I had crossed seven states over three days. I realize that not everyone likes guns, owns guns or believes they should even be legal, but I do and I exercise my right to own and carry one, especially when traveling 1300 miles one way.

You said "my gun was bigger than the border authorities" or something like that.
Anyway, sure if you were travelling across the U.S then I understand.
I don't dispute your right or reasons to carry a firearm either.

Originally Posted by 73wanab

You say "always carry a firearm when on a long trip" but that it only took you 30 minutes ? (i.e. in and out ?)
Use some brains here, Arizona to Toronto Canada. 1300 miles one way!

Yeah I realised my lack of brains last night when I realised !

Originally Posted by 73wanab

Are you sure you're telling us the whole story here ?
Are you listening here?

Certainly am !

Originally Posted by 73wanab

How do you even know there is a warrant and it "Took them almost a year to do it." ?
The first thing I did when I arrived back in AZ was to hire an attorney in Canada to try to resolve the matter. The incident happened in Oct. 2007. The legal system took 11 months to finally bring the case to a hearing when the arrest warrant was issued since I was not present at the hearing.

What do you mean you tried to "resolve the matter" ? You mean get the charges dropped ?
Wouldn't it have been easier to just forget about it back in the U.S ?
You say "Heaven forbid the day the Gov starts knocking down the doors of your attorney to track you ass down."
Sounds like you're not too concerned about being tracked down in the U.S ?
Why did you get a Canadian lawyer and not an American one ?

Originally Posted by 73wanab

Presumably they issued the warrant after they let you go and then realized the mistake ?
Obviously. I was let out on bail the same morning after being arrested. Turns out there was a new law that had been enacted only a few weeks earlier that should have kept me incarcerated until the actual trial.
But you said "they charged me and issued the warrant !". (i.e all at the same time ?)
Was charged for bringing a forbidden firearm into Canada. Warrant was issued 11 months later for my arrest since they can’t have a trial without me being present.

Oh sure I'm not that stupid.
Yep I see you say "Oh yeah, they charged me and issued the warrant! Took them almost a year to do it".
How soon did they realize the mistake, and how exactly did you learn about it ? Through your lawyer who contacted you ?
Why didn't the warrant get issued as soon as they realized their mistake ?
You say "was a new law that had been enacted only a few weeks earlier that should have kept me incarcerated until the actual trial.".
Was that the only change in the law ? (i.e. the warrant itself for your arrest ?)

Originally Posted by 73wanab

Presumably "Even my Canadian attorney can't give me a definitive answer" means you're still in contact with him ?
Yes, her.

Sure.

Originally Posted by 73wanab

Why is your Canadian Attorney handling legal stuff for you if he knows(you say he can't advise you) there is a warrant against you by the Canadian govt ?
Wouldn't the Canadian authorites think of checking your solicitors financial records if they wanted to trace you ?
I’m going to assume you are in Britain. Why wouldn’t my Canadian attorney still be handling the case for me? Warrant or no warrant, there is attorney client privilege. I don’t know about in Britain, but we do have certain rights afford to us and on of those is the attorney client relationship. Heaven forbid the day the Gov starts knocking down the doors of your attorney to track you ass down.

I think I believe you.
I just thought maybe even attorneys were not above the law, and could not stop the authorities if they were trying to trace you. Knowing the U.S govt I am suprised you have any of these rights left, but I agree you should have them.
It seems a little odd that you are concerned about being extradited from Britain(a commonwealth country) but not from the U.S.
If you're not worried, then why didn't you just forget about it at the time ?

Originally Posted by 73wanab

Your Canadian attorney could not convince the crown that it would be pointless to pursue the case but you were arrested and released on bail due to an "internal mistake" ?
Border agent’s mistake. Didn’t know the new law. Prosecutor was not happy.

You mean at the hearing ? Where was that ?

Originally Posted by 73wanab

And he said you "would not be returning to Canada to face charges" but you "Would have been sitting in jail the whole time" ?
Are you sure that wasn't a freudian slip becasue of a serious crime you've committed ?
Boy you got a problem! New law REQUIRES that anyone arrested for carry a forbidden weapon across the border to be held without bail until time of trial. That would have been 11 months. Yes, Canada does consider this a serious crime. If you are implying that there is something else involved here, there is not.

Yep - silly question in hindsight (another one !

)

Originally Posted by 73wanab

And your statement:
"sorry sir, your under arrest for some alleged crime with ours buds the Canadians, who say you may have violated their laws even though you haven't been convicted of anything"
Why not just say warrant instead of "alleged crime" ? Isn't that what it is ?
Or are you trying to convince us you've done nothing wrong ?
It is an alleged crime since there has been no trial and no conviction. Innocent till proven guilty. Interesting concept, ever heard of it? Of course I did something wrong. It’s obvious I did something wrong or I wouldn’t have been arrested!

Not saying you're guilty of anything at all - I just don't get why you didn't say warrant but I take your point.

Originally Posted by 73wanab

Mother-in-Law dying in England ?
WTF! Yes

Sorry - really.

Originally Posted by 73wanab

I'm not saying I don't believe you(I may be wrong) but your story has a very fishy feel to it indeed. Are you HIDING something here ?
Don’t BS me with that statement. The only thing I’m hiding here is myself from the Canadian authorities.

Sorry bud. Just fishin.
You wouldn't believe how many BSers are on here. Then again, most people probably think I'm one of them too.

(probably yourself included now)

Originally Posted by 73wanab

Let me guess, you're not using a dodgy cover story to bring guns or drugs into the UK are you ?
On the run for a serious gun crime ?
You have way to much time on your hands to make idiotic statements like that.
I got on this forum to see in there would be any useful information that I could use that might be helpful. If you want to flame me for making a stupid mistake, so be it.

Too much time - you're probably right !
Sorry - you're probably well p*ssed with me interrogating you(as if you haven't got enough to worry about maybe),
But hey I don't know you from Adam.
I understand if you don't want to respond, I'm just interested to know your story and (being honest) whether you're telling the truth or not.
I think you are but I'm still not 100% yet. (not that it matters)

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