Thread: Yorkshire Activists blockade Sheffield Border Agency Centre

Originally Posted by youcanhandlethetruth

Your link Baron - "No Borders network" that says it all !

These people will campaign under the guise of "No2ID" but it's pretty clear the only agenda is for mass immigration.

Will these immigrants be treated equally before the law ? (i.e. will they be prosecuted if they have committed a crime ?)

Fat chance IMO !

It's plain old infiltration. NO2ID has a few Libdem/left kinds of roots, e.g. the Joseph Rowntree Foundation. Some of the people there are on that agenda, and they censor any mention of the EU and its links with ID cards, except now that it is obvious they tend not to be able to call it 'speculation' quite so much. There are NO2ID coordinators who are Marxists and far left, and one I know is working for Unison and is involved with the kind of things you can see such bookshops pushing.

However, that particular person recently said he needed to ‘adjust his social norms' when reading what the Guardian was saying about ID cards and comparing it to the Mail. I have had long arguments about this sort of thing and I think the message is finally sinking in. No borders I think have been noticed in time. Damage level is minimal so far. The press seems to have taken into account what I was saying about linking uncontrolled immigration with opposing ID cards. Most of the pictures in the press seemed to have avoid making that visual association.

Originally Posted by Baron von Lotsov

It's plain old infiltration.

Absolutely.

Originally Posted by Baron von Lotsov

NO2ID has a few Libdem/left kinds of roots, e.g. the Joseph Rowntree Foundation.

I know a lot more specifics about what's going on in the U.S than I do here, but it's following exactly the same pattern !

These "foundations" put up the money and get unbeknown idiots to demonstrate on the establishments behalf, without knowing the true agenda is either to discredit these protests or push for another aganda like open borders.

Originally Posted by Baron von Lotsov

Some of the people there are on that agenda, and they censor any mention of the EU and its links with ID cards, except now that it is obvious they tend not to be able to call it 'speculation' quite so much. There are NO2ID coordinators who are Marxists and far left, and one I know is working for Unison and is involved with the kind of things you can see such bookshops pushing.

Incredible.

Originally Posted by Baron von Lotsov

However, that particular person recently said he needed to ‘adjust his social norms' when reading what the Guardian was saying about ID cards and comparing it to the Mail. I have had long arguments about this sort of thing and I think the message is finally sinking in.

Well done.
I hope he takes it seriously.

What's annoying is the fact that if he's being paid for it (is he?) then whilst he may drop out, they'll just recruit som other unsuspecting and hard up zombie.

We are in an "information war" of truth against the mainstream media and the government.
No doubt about that. Our only hope is to educate as many people as possible or we might as well give up right now.
People have got to stop sleepwalking, stop denying and wake up.

Originally Posted by Baron von Lotsov

No borders I think have been noticed in time. Damage level is minimal so far. The press seems to have taken into account what I was saying about linking uncontrolled immigration with opposing ID cards. Most of the pictures in the press seemed to have avoid making that visual association.

Sorry, what do you sepcifically mean "what I was saying about linking uncontrolled immigration with opposing ID cards."

You mean the two are linked on purpose to allow the real agenda of unrestricted immigration ?

Of course these ID cards do nothing to protect people's identity at all - in all probability they most probably increase the risk.

I've heard that in the U.S illegal immigrants are not even arrested for the most serious of crimes !
That is my main concern - there'll be hoards of criminals on the loose with no police power to stop them.
I won't be suprised to see it happen here at all.
Not only that but we'll all have to show our ID cards but they won't be required to at all !

That is particularly more worrying IMO than just "immigration".

God help us all.

Originally Posted by youcanhandlethetruth

Sorry, what do you sepcifically mean "what I was saying about linking uncontrolled immigration with opposing ID cards."

Well you see the No Borders idiots are driven by Marxist intellectuals, and they use the same methods as they have always done. NO2ID has maintained a highly professional image and I have had a lot to do with keeping it on track and making sure it is one step ahead. This has endeared the press to us, because we have maintained accuracy and strong arguments. Now, the ruse the government uses is to put fear into people that without ID cards we will be over-run by immigrants. So imagine what the average punter would think if they saw a picture on the front page of the Bolshevik Broadcasting Corporation where the banners read NO Borders-NO2ID-papers for all or papers for none-NO2ID- Anarchy...



UK Indymedia - Anti I.D Card Banner Drop In Newcastle

Originally Posted by Baron von Lotsov

Well you see the No Borders idiots are driven by Marxist intellectuals, and they use the same methods as they have always done. NO2ID has maintained a highly professional image and I have had a lot to do with keeping it on track and making sure it is one step ahead. This has endeared the press to us, because we have maintained accuracy and strong arguments. Now, the ruse the government uses is to put fear into people that without ID cards we will be over-run by immigrants. So imagine what the average punter would think if they saw a picture on the front page of the Bolshevik Broadcasting Corporation where the banners read NO Borders-NO2ID-papers for all or papers for none-NO2ID- Anarchy...



UK Indymedia - Anti I.D Card Banner Drop In Newcastle

Oh I see now !!!! (took me a while but I got there !)

You mean "NO Borders-NO2ID" and "papers for all or papers for none".
Oh my god !
This puts even the government to shame for such carefully woven deceit.
I normally can predict how these things tend to occur, but I had no idea on this one !
I'm still struggling to get my head round it fully too - I've never seen such brazen but craftily deceitful propaganda.
I thought it was mainly just to promote open borders but it's even worse and includes pushing compulsory ID cards too !

Do you have a counter-plan to stop it ?
If I were you, I would make the case that their argument "NO-2ID" doesn't reconcile with their argument "Papers for all" ?
I'd argue that if they hate ID cards so much then why do they want everyone to suffer the same government restrictions ?

This seems to me to be their general hole in their supposed "argument".
What do you think ?

Well anyway, excellent post again Baron.

I just hope the people who have concerns on immigration(and ID cards too of course) read this whole thread and learn how (in some cases) the supposed "enemy" is being used by the state against them under the false pretence of supposed opposition to ID cards.
Until people understand this immigration issue is a lot more complex than "us" and "them", we're ALL going down the pan under government-sponsored provacateuring.

The comment I posted on that link I gave you with the picture said that I didn't think it was good PR to have anarchist signs involved with the ID card campaign because most people would be against it as they see anarchy as total lack of law and order. As you can see, the comment has been deleted. I did exactly what you said about the slogan of 'papers for all'. I posted this link on the NO2ID site:

No Border network - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And quoted from it:

Common slogans within the Network include, "No Border, No Nation, Stop Deportations!" "Freedom of Movement, Freedom of Residence: Right to Come, Right to Go, Right to Stay!", "No one is illegal" and "Papers for All or No Papers at All!"

Where the comment was deleted along with all other attempts to bring it to people's attention. Sometime later on I posted a single thread on DNA samples being removed from BNP leafleters by torture. Apparently, they were illegally arrested for handing out leaflets about 'racism cuts both ways'. One refused to give a DNA sample and was locked into this weird restraining machine that applied pressure on pressure points to force his mouth open and his fingers. It was horrific and I thought it was an excellent article to show how the police abuse their powers. I got banned for that by someone called Guy Herbert, who is an IP lawyer and is General secretary of NO2ID.

He has never liked anything I have had to say, and is very arrogant and touchy about things. I think he could well be the system's plant. He fits the bill, but I could not find out much about him except the firms he has worked for. He mentioned he has Liberal Democrat friends as well and gets about a bit in high places, but says very little about himself on the whole. The other people at NO2ID are generally far more reasonable, but he's the boss.

Originally Posted by Baron von Lotsov

The comment I posted on that link I gave you with the picture said that I didn't think it was good PR to have anarchist signs involved with the ID card campaign because most people would be against it as they see anarchy as total lack of law and order. As you can see, the comment has been deleted.

Actually I didn't see your comment but it speaks volumes that it was removed.

Originally Posted by Baron von Lotsov

I did exactly what you said about the slogan of 'papers for all'.

I posted this link on the NO2ID site:
No Border network - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And quoted from it:

"Common slogans within the Network include, "No Border, No Nation, Stop Deportations!" "Freedom of Movement, Freedom of Residence: Right to Come, Right to Go, Right to Stay!", "No one is illegal" and "Papers for All or No Papers at All!""

Where the comment was deleted along with all other attempts to bring it to people's attention.

Disgusting behaviour on NO2ID's part.

You see, now I'm even getting paranoid for saying that !

Unsuspecting people may think I mean I support ID cards, but the chief boss of this primary group that claims to care about this "No2ID" issue, has the exact opposite agenda

Originally Posted by Baron von Lotsov

Sometime later on I posted a single thread on DNA samples being removed from BNP leafleters by torture. Apparently, they were illegally arrested for handing out leaflets about 'racism cuts both ways'. One refused to give a DNA sample and was locked into this weird restraining machine that applied pressure on pressure points to force his mouth open and his fingers. It was horrific and I thought it was an excellent article to show how the police abuse their powers. I got banned for that by someone called Guy Herbert, who is an IP lawyer and is General secretary of NO2ID.

Words fail me.
How did you learn of this abuse of power may I ask ?

Originally Posted by Baron von Lotsov

He has never liked anything I have had to say, and is very arrogant and touchy about things. I think he could well be the system's plant. He fits the bill, but I could not find out much about him except the firms he has worked for. He mentioned he has Liberal Democrat friends as well and gets about a bit in high places, but says very little about himself on the whole. The other people at NO2ID are generally far more reasonable, but he's the boss.

The picture looks crystal clear it seems.

I really don't know what to say Baron, except well done for being pro-active about it.
It sickens me how these people can get away with it like this.

Do you think other NO2ID people are supportive of this individual and his agenda ?
Would for example The National Co-ordinator on No2ID's "about us" page or affiliated groups be concerned about such matters if they could be substantiated ?
Are the BNP aware of/publishing the story ?
Not that I support them, but maybe any exposure about this issue is better than none. I'd hope they may even have some photos or eye witness accounts to back this up.

Can anything be done or is this fighting a losing battle to try to get this exposed ?

It's just everything you would expect and more of a system desperate to do whatever it takes to cling on to it's power and agenda.

It seems maybe there needs to be a "NO to"NO2ID"" group set up.
Or is that unfair on the movement as a whole in your opinion ?

What happens now do you think ? (if anything can be done that is)

Sorry so many questions.

I get on with Phil, he is the spokesman, and he is not from any elitist background, he was some kind of teacher in sculpture and is a good and reasonable bloke. The other main ones are also OK and I have very rarely had disagreements with them. It really is that one man and he comes across as very unfriendly to most people. The only times he seems to reply to anyone's comments is when he can find fault with them, an all round nasty piece of work in my opinion, and many others.

I think there have been a great deal of people who have been put off NO2ID by this, and the UKIP were certainly not happy with the way they completely dismissed the European angle. I think the UKIP are still supporting NO2ID but relations were unnecessarily strained. The BNP supported NO2ID but they got snubbed at the Mayoral hustings where all other parties were invited bar them, and this was an obvious act of political censor. You see the NO2ID constitution says they support all political parties against ID cards, and are non-partisan. So they pisssed off the BNP when they were simply against ID cards. On the otherhand, they seem to work very well with Libdems.

As for exposure, well the thing is that I think the people involved with NO2ID are on the whole very smart people and so they won't manage to pull one over on them. Most people, like myself, know the game but just try and do the best they can. When they start to do something a bit dodgy you get other people complaining now and so it’s not just myself looking out. I have spent a great deal of time trying to attract the smarter end of the UK population by putting up interesting posts and some with a bit of a technical flavour to them so a lot of people in the computer industry itself have been attracted to it. An interesting point was I once used this language analyser on the forum to assess its reading age and it came back stating it was at genius level! So, it's not going to get fooled. I firmly believe brains are the best defence against the system's sneaky tricks.

By the way, the BNP police torture business is going down the normal route. The BNP are going to sue their arses off for it. One thing though, that is crystal clear in all of this, and that is the immigration issue seems to be one of the most important scams of the elite. I think it ranks up there with the holocaust business. So that's one to keep an eye on for certain and it seems to frighten most system people. 'One must not talk about it.'

Interesting points.

I hope all these issues can be exposed for what they really are.

Ok thanks Baron.
Please let me know if you do hear any news related to this.