Young mother ordered to pay £265 for putting bin out 24 hours too early

mkpdavies · 22-05-2008, 08:52 PM

Young mother ordered to pay £265 for putting bin out 24 hours too EARLY | Mail Online

Quote:

Timing is everything as Zoe Watmough has found to her cost after putting her bins out a day early.

As a result, the 22-year-old mother was hauled before magistrates and handed down a legal bill of £265.

Council officers spotted her two bins - a green one for recycling and a grey one - on a Wednesday, 24 hours before it was due to be collected.

The rules of Bolton Council in Greater Manchester dictate bins should not be put out until after 7.30am on the day refuse collectors are due.
At Bolton magistrates court Zoe was fined £125, ordered to pay £125 costs and a £15 victim surcharge.

I don't think I have any respect left for the law now. It's gone. All of it.

Westcountryman · 22-05-2008, 08:59 PM

Quote:

The rules of Bolton Council in Greater Manchester dictate bins should not be put out until after 7.30am on the day refuse collectors are due.

That would be clever where I live - the binmen come about 7am. We always put the bin out the night before. I don't see this as a problem.

John Connor · 22-05-2008, 09:02 PM

Quote:

The rules of Bolton Council in Greater Manchester dictate bins should not be put out until after 7.30am on the day refuse collectors are due.

So what happens if you work on Los Angeles time and don't get up until afternoon? What happens if you have DSPS? What happens if you start work at 7 am?

Again, one size fits all. You vill obey and be good little robots.

HighlandFP · 22-05-2008, 11:32 PM

I will phone the coooncils tomorrow - wind them up,
I'm thinking of moving doon ther but read about your bins .........

g hall · 24-05-2008, 05:58 PM

There are too many bureaucratic jobsworths employed by the state i.e. US these days - they should be given a stiff brush and a cart and made to sweep the streets at least they'll be doing something useful .
F*CKING PARASITES

Imperium · 24-05-2008, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by g hall

There are too many bureaucratic jobsworths employed by the state i.e. US these days - they should be given a stiff brush and a cart and made to sweep the streets at least they'll be doing something useful .
F*CKING PARASITES

The biggest scum of the earth are social workers. Hunting them down should become a national sport.

Aardvark · 26-05-2008, 10:45 AM

The punishment seems excessive and most local authorities don't apply such a strict ruling or indeed such a strict timescale. Nodoby round here has the problem that Bolton seems to have created.

The problem is that in most authorities the ruling clique can do what they like without worrying about the day to day practicalities. The officers enforcing the rules are only doing what their elected representatives have voted for; enforcement policy is also for elected representatives. New laws and bylaws may only be created by elected councillors, although their lawyers will have drafted the precise form of words. When we passed new bylaws on our town council we put the whole lot out to consultation (very few replies), we debated in public (nobody there to watch us) and we made changes to reflect the modernisation of our society. It is no longer a crime for weavers to leave their blankets to dry on our recreation ground as the blanket weaving industry round here is long defunct.

The problem is that the public take no interest in the people who run their council (70-80% don't vote). It is too late when you realise that the law has been made and you have not read it. If the rules were put out to consultation, voted on in council and passed then that is democratic. How else would you pass laws?

I feel sorry for the lady, but she might have had several opportunities to complain about strict rules or a strict enforcement policy.

I was on a committee that was under a lot of pressure to enforce fly tipping laws. The public were genuinely angry and all councillors received complaints. We bought a couple of cameras disguised as crumpled Coke cans and put them in laybys. We got a couple of major offenders fined £500+costs. The public wanted instant action, but we had to formulate a process, discuss it in public, announce it (nice photos of said Coke cans in all local papers), put up fresh signs, publicise our actions and ensure that nobody could complain they didn't know what the rules were or that concealed cameras might be used. Conversely a local fly tipper dumped some stuff on town council land and the clerk found his gas bill in it; a quick 'phone call and the rubbish was cleared within a couple of hours. Half our district is an AONB and we rely on tourism; fly tippers cause people here to lose jobs in the long run. Sensible and firm enforcement is a vote winner.

In some of the 'better' suburbs people complain if bins are left out for days on end. My neighbours leave their bin out for days, sometimes weeks, and just top it up as they go by. They don't recycle anything, the bins are full to overflowing and we now have foxes ransacking them and scattering rubbish everywhere. A couple of other neighbours asked the teen daughter of the house, quite politely, to clear up her mess and got the door slammed in their face. The result is that when the estate managers visit in a couple of weeks the rest of us will complain and I sincerely hope the neigbours do get a fine or, as they have also thrown their barbecue food over mine and other fences, stolen milk off my doorstep, play loud music at all hours and leave their gate off the latch so it swings and crashes in the wind throughout the night, I hope they get evicted. There are rats in the nearby brook and they will move out to pick amongst the litter. It is easy to condemn the council officers when you don't have vermin running loose, but my neighbours with children actually think that the bins should only go out the night before the collection day (that's what everyone round here does from about tea time). We have weekly rubbish and recycling collections. We have a benign enforcement regime - if people don't complain there is little or no enforcement. Not a problem.

When people complain about these fines in the national press they forget that they might have had the opportunity to suggest changes to the law or that they had received several warnings or that actually the offence complained of is one of many. The papers are quick to make victims out of people who have been p|ssing off their neighbours for months if not years. My daughter is a young mum and she can put her bin out on the correct day; what is the problem?

I stand for election at every opportunity (8 times now - my daughter stood twice at the age of 19) and am of the opinion that some of the people who do the most complaining should get involved in the political process and try to change the things they don't like. I lost my seat last time round and therefore if the elected councillor does something with which I disagree I have to accept that he got more votes. That's democracy.

Some of the comments on this thread explain why UKIP has few council seats. Every public servant, no matter how humble or what their role, has a vote. A lot of public servants don't vote, trying to maintain genuine neutrality. If, however, you stand for election and call for the hunting down of social workers or making office workers sweep streets then you are certain to get them, their families and friends to vote against you.

VanillaSpice · 26-05-2008, 11:23 AM

I agree with Aardvark that some of these news items miss out on details. I am sure there is more to this than everyone thinks.

g hall · 26-05-2008, 02:52 PM

The problem is that the local authorities appear eager to wave the stick while not even thinking about a carrot

Rubbish disposal is something that UKIP should be able to make hay with as it's subject to a wonderful EU directive but

Besoeker · 26-05-2008, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VanillaSpice

I agree with Aardvark that some of these news items miss out on details. I am sure there is more to this than everyone thinks.

Or maybe people just don't read beyond the headlines?

22-05-2008, 11:32 PM	#4 (permalink)
HighlandFP Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Ross-shire Highlands SCOTLAND Posts: 586 Party: Other	I will phone the coooncils tomorrow - wind them up, I'm thinking of moving doon ther but read about your bins ......... __________________ WARNING: By reading or downloading this post you may be committing an offence under some or all of these Terrorism Acts. http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/securit...m-and-the-law/ EU = Ein Volk ~ Ein Reich.

24-05-2008, 05:58 PM	#5 (permalink)
g hall Uber Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 4,927	There are too many bureaucratic jobsworths employed by the state i.e. US these days - they should be given a stiff brush and a cart and made to sweep the streets at least they'll be doing something useful . F*CKING PARASITES __________________ "That government is best which governs least." "This is a sharp Medicine, but it is a Physician for all diseases and miseries". "To be "matter of fact" about the world is to blunder into fantasy --and dull fantasy at that, as the real world is strange and wonderful."

26-05-2008, 10:45 AM	#7 (permalink)
Aardvark Moderator Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Oxonia Posts: 3,522	The punishment seems excessive and most local authorities don't apply such a strict ruling or indeed such a strict timescale. Nodoby round here has the problem that Bolton seems to have created. The problem is that in most authorities the ruling clique can do what they like without worrying about the day to day practicalities. The officers enforcing the rules are only doing what their elected representatives have voted for; enforcement policy is also for elected representatives. New laws and bylaws may only be created by elected councillors, although their lawyers will have drafted the precise form of words. When we passed new bylaws on our town council we put the whole lot out to consultation (very few replies), we debated in public (nobody there to watch us) and we made changes to reflect the modernisation of our society. It is no longer a crime for weavers to leave their blankets to dry on our recreation ground as the blanket weaving industry round here is long defunct. The problem is that the public take no interest in the people who run their council (70-80% don't vote). It is too late when you realise that the law has been made and you have not read it. If the rules were put out to consultation, voted on in council and passed then that is democratic. How else would you pass laws? I feel sorry for the lady, but she might have had several opportunities to complain about strict rules or a strict enforcement policy. I was on a committee that was under a lot of pressure to enforce fly tipping laws. The public were genuinely angry and all councillors received complaints. We bought a couple of cameras disguised as crumpled Coke cans and put them in laybys. We got a couple of major offenders fined £500+costs. The public wanted instant action, but we had to formulate a process, discuss it in public, announce it (nice photos of said Coke cans in all local papers), put up fresh signs, publicise our actions and ensure that nobody could complain they didn't know what the rules were or that concealed cameras might be used. Conversely a local fly tipper dumped some stuff on town council land and the clerk found his gas bill in it; a quick 'phone call and the rubbish was cleared within a couple of hours. Half our district is an AONB and we rely on tourism; fly tippers cause people here to lose jobs in the long run. Sensible and firm enforcement is a vote winner. In some of the 'better' suburbs people complain if bins are left out for days on end. My neighbours leave their bin out for days, sometimes weeks, and just top it up as they go by. They don't recycle anything, the bins are full to overflowing and we now have foxes ransacking them and scattering rubbish everywhere. A couple of other neighbours asked the teen daughter of the house, quite politely, to clear up her mess and got the door slammed in their face. The result is that when the estate managers visit in a couple of weeks the rest of us will complain and I sincerely hope the neigbours do get a fine or, as they have also thrown their barbecue food over mine and other fences, stolen milk off my doorstep, play loud music at all hours and leave their gate off the latch so it swings and crashes in the wind throughout the night, I hope they get evicted. There are rats in the nearby brook and they will move out to pick amongst the litter. It is easy to condemn the council officers when you don't have vermin running loose, but my neighbours with children actually think that the bins should only go out the night before the collection day (that's what everyone round here does from about tea time). We have weekly rubbish and recycling collections. We have a benign enforcement regime - if people don't complain there is little or no enforcement. Not a problem. When people complain about these fines in the national press they forget that they might have had the opportunity to suggest changes to the law or that they had received several warnings or that actually the offence complained of is one of many. The papers are quick to make victims out of people who have been p\|ssing off their neighbours for months if not years. My daughter is a young mum and she can put her bin out on the correct day; what is the problem? I stand for election at every opportunity (8 times now - my daughter stood twice at the age of 19) and am of the opinion that some of the people who do the most complaining should get involved in the political process and try to change the things they don't like. I lost my seat last time round and therefore if the elected councillor does something with which I disagree I have to accept that he got more votes. That's democracy. Some of the comments on this thread explain why UKIP has few council seats. Every public servant, no matter how humble or what their role, has a vote. A lot of public servants don't vote, trying to maintain genuine neutrality. If, however, you stand for election and call for the hunting down of social workers or making office workers sweep streets then you are certain to get them, their families and friends to vote against you. __________________ When in Woking do as the Wokes do. "I do not wish to form my opinions by thoughtlessly quoting others; I wish others to support their opinions by sensibly quoting me." Paul Wesson (Aardvark) 13th April 2008 Last edited by Aardvark; 26-05-2008 at 10:50 AM.

26-05-2008, 02:52 PM	#9 (permalink)
g hall Uber Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 4,927	The problem is that the local authorities appear eager to wave the stick while not even thinking about a carrot Rubbish disposal is something that UKIP should be able to make hay with as it's subject to a wonderful EU directive but __________________ "That government is best which governs least." "This is a sharp Medicine, but it is a Physician for all diseases and miseries". "To be "matter of fact" about the world is to blunder into fantasy --and dull fantasy at that, as the real world is strange and wonderful."

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26-05-2008, 11:23 AM	#8 (permalink)
VanillaSpice Junior Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 27	I agree with Aardvark that some of these news items miss out on details. I am sure there is more to this than everyone thinks.