gremlin in the works

well do i need to say any more then if you look at what has been going off in the last few weeks you will of seen that fly tippers and people who take they dogs out in the park are terrorists according to Local councils.

Local councils across the uk have been using anti terror laws to spy on people so even this as an example shows that the laws are to be used in a corrupt way so why would id cards be any thing different.

i am sick of the boogeyman been used to take away my freedoms and over peoples the ira was 10 times worser then the nut jobs that are around to day but of course we must all give up our freedoms to stop them,that makes a lot of sense to me

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William Pitt the younger “Unlimited power is apt to corrupt the minds of those who possess it; and this I know, my lords, that where laws end, tyranny begins”

Smidgey

Actually, if anyone supports the terrorists it's those who wish to introduce anti-terror laws.

Terrorists wish to destroy our way of life. I can't think of a faster way of doing that than destroying the liberties our way of life is built upon.

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How vain is man, who boasts in fight the valour of gigantic might!

-Georg Friedrich Händel

Rebirth

Terrorists also have an agenda to remove trust in government. The government has done this all by itself with years of intentional incompetence.

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bornfree

Ah yes, the old Stalinist doctrine `If you are not for us you are against us.' You've brought a breath of fresh air into the forum - it's obsessed with the dignity of the individual, personal freedom, civil liberties etc.
Someone like you could go a long way in modern Britain - have you ever considered joining the Labour party?

Rebirth

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gremlin in the works

Rebirth what a great pace of George Orwells 1984 i can recall when i was about the age of 7 people was saying then it will not be long till the government will start to put chips in us and it turns out they was right and when you are called to get one put in you just remember its all been done in the name of fighting terror of course

Harbinger

So our Government is corrput and the terrorists were freedom fighters eh?

Is this the calibre of UK hater you have on here?

OK the responses, the predictable mish mash of dull people quoting Blair (Eric Arthur not the other one). One or two references to Nazi's and what do you know one or two semi intelligent replies i shall try and answer later.

Rebirth

It depends on whether you see everything as black and white, which I am guessing you do.

It seems fighting terror is fighting corrupt government who terrorize the masses in order to gain more and more control over them.

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Harbinger

ID cards wont stop terrorism but they wont hurl us into tyranny either.

They are a useful tool, a toold for identifying and keeping track of people in just the same way that passports are used.

Passports dont stop terrorism either and they can be forged as well as an ID card but I dont suppose you would advocate getting rid of them.

Immigrants ae here to stay, whover said deport them is in cloud cuckoo land, however ID cards would also help weed out illegals.

Like any new legislation it needs to be tweaked and reviewed council using the powers for minor offences should be bought to book, it doesnt make the law bad.

The detention times are required for effective investigation but the times are still subject to regular review.

We need to tighten up our terror laws, the UK is a happy hunting ground for illegal and legal immigrants, terrorists people traffickers and the like.

Misguided liberals are our worst enemy.

Westcountryman

What's the point of having them then, if you've already admitted that they won't stop terrorism? I thought that was your original argument.

Why do you want to track the general population? What have they done wrong? Don't you believe in freedom?

Having a passport is a voluntary document, having an ID card is not optional. A passport also does not carry my iris scan, finger print and/or DNA.

This is disputed.

From the Conservatives: ID cards won't prevent illegal immigration: Foreign visitors will not have to have an ID card, unless they plan to stay in the UK for more than three months.

From the Lib Dems:The Home Office wants to make it compulsory for people to present their card when applying for a job in the UK, and claims that this will prevent illegal working. But employers in industries with high levels of illegal labour are already required to check identity documents. The problem is that the Home Office doesn’t inspect them to make sure they are following the rules. There were only 2 prosecutions for employing an illegal worker in 2003. The fact that illegal immigrants will not be able to get ID cards will not change anything as long as there are unscrupulous employers and lax Home Office enforcement.

I dispute the law isn't bad, but assuming for a moment that it isn't - if anything the incidents with the councils and the Terrorism Acts just goes to prove that you can't trust the "honest intentions" of the government with such powers - they'll be abused.

We already have the longest detention times in the Western world. Please tell me why 90 days is necessary.

"Liberty staff interviewed terrorism specialists and lawyers in 15 countries.

Their research found that in the U.S. the detention limit is two days, in France it is six, Italy four and in Turkey suspects can be held for 7-1/2 days.

In Spain, where 191 people died in the 2004 Madrid train bombings, there is a five-day detention limit. The closest any country comes to Britain's month-long limit is Australia with 12 days."


Britain has longest terrorism detention | UK | Reuters


UK terror detention limit is longest of any democracy | UK news | The Guardian


First off, what's wrong with legal immigrants?

Secondly, we do not need new laws to tackle the others issues you mention, we need better enforcement of existing legislation.

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the cake is a lie.
the cake is a lie.
the cake is a lie.
the cake is a lie.