Westcountryman

Pictured: The 'workman's van' disguised by police to target motorists with a hidden speed camera

Many motorists have long suspected the police of being a little too enthusiastic in their fight against speeding.

And their worst fears look like being confirmed by this scruffy blue van.

For the Renault, complete with filthy paintwork and a GB sticker in its back window, is a speed trap that just happens to look like a builder's vehicle.



Its true identity was uncovered by motorcycle enthusiasts who found photographs revealing that its numberplate was the same as a police van which was once covered in high-visibility markings and blue lights.

Critics said it was another example of revenue being prized above safety - and proved that guidelines about speed cameras were worthless.

Derbyshire police denied the van's dramatic makeover was a disguise to snare unwary road users.

The Department of Transport and the Association of Chief Police Officers' regulations recommend speed traps should be as visible as possible.

But Brian Gregory, of the Association of British Drivers, said: 'It's quite common now for police to hide their cars, their cameras or themselves.



"We have even heard of police hiding behind gravestones.

"They are going down exactly the same route as the police in Australia and America. In one case in America an officer actually dressed up as a tramp while operating a speed trap. How long before that happens here?"

The van has been spotted mainly in lay-bys on notoriously dangerous Peak District roads that attract bikers from around the country every weekend.

To complete its makeover it has even been fitted has a tow-bar - which was nowhere to be seen when it was a marked vehicle.

Mr Gregory added: "It's certainly not in keeping with ACPO guidelines - but then the guidelines aren't worth the paper they're written on.

"It shows this is not about safety but revenue generation. In this case everyone suffers because of a small proportion of the motorcycle fraternity."

But police insist that the undercover van will be staying on patrol - claiming it targets speeders only where warning signs are already in place.

A spokesman said: "We use this equipment only on roads that have signs warning of the presence of speed cameras. What more can we do?
"Unfortunately, despite our efforts and campaigns, there are still some who continue to flout the law and put themselves and others at risk."

Four years ago officers in Derbyshire agreed to take down a fixed speed camera found to be hidden just two yards behind a 30mph sign on a bend on the A6 near the village of Ambergate.

Police, who claimed it had never been turned on, removed it after accepting it was "inappropriate" and didn't give motorists "a fighting chance".

Earlier this year police in North Wales converted a horsebox into a 'stealth' speed camera as part of a crackdown on speeding bikers.
Latest figures show almost two million speeding tickets are being issued to drivers each year.

Since Labour came to power in 1997 the number has shot up from 700,000 to 1.9million.

It follows the Government's huge expansion of the speed camera network. There are now around 6,000 such cameras in operation in England and Wales.

Source: Pictured: The 'workman's van' disguised by police to target motorists with a hidden speed camera | the Daily Mail
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This is disgraceful. The Police are there to prevent crime, not do everything they can to be sneaky and underhand to catch people committing it. It's for this reason that I don't agree with 'undercover' cars.

If a marked car makes someone slow down then great, that's much preferable to following them in an unmarked car just to catch them out.

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Manus haec inimica tyrannis ense petit placidam sub libertate quietam - "This hand of mine, which is hostile to tyrants, seeks by the sword quiet peace under liberty."

The Bear

The Police service (noun) are required to POLICE (verb) the law. A fair definition of “police” is “to regulate, control, or keep in order”.

We’ve all come to accept that when we hear the word “Police” we automatically think of the Police service, and forget that what we really mean is a service that is provided by society to perform the act of policing the law in society.

Their role is not simply preventing crime, it is not even their prime function.

Their prime function is protecting the public and property, and doing their best to find those responsible when a crime has been or is being committed.

In short to “police” the public.

Given that, provided that their actions do amount to acting as agent provocateurs the use of any and all means of preventing crime and detecting crime are to be applauded especially when the crime involved is in itself relatively trivial but the outcome possible disastrous for many people and road traffic offences especially those involving moving vehicles fit into this category.

The presence of speed cameras is a great disincentive for people to exceed the speed limit.

All it takes is for a few people to rigidly abide by speed limits and they then act as rolling road blocks for those fools who think they know better when it is or is not safe to exceed a speed limit.

For those who do not, the disguised speed camera is ideal, they all should be, though in this case what is shown is NOT simply a speed camera, it is a SAFETY camera.

These have a much broader role as has been stated before in detecting vehicles that should not be on the public roads due to being untaxed, uninsured, or not having a current MOT pass certificate and I wholeheartedly agree with them.

They can also provide evidence of movements of previously nominated vehicles in order to establish who was where and when in the case of serious crime detection and prevention, a thing that should certainly NOT be overlooked these days.

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I am an old man. I have eaten much salt.

BonnieDundee

It seems the function of the police has long been to work as agents of the gov't in order to keep the people in line.

The police are there to solve crimes and perhaps to put in the occassional high-visibility patrol not to take part in this kind of rubbish.

This kind of tactic keeps the police seperate from the people they serve and makes them act like our superiors and the enforcers of the even more superior politicians. We need to make the police our servants again and make them act in the appropriate manner for this.

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"It is poor civic hygiene to install technologies that could someday facilitate a police state."
-Bruce Schneier

How to Overthrow the System: brew your own beer; kick in your TV; build your own cabin and p*ss off front porch whenever you bloody well feel like it.
Edward Abbey

Leopold Kohr.

Dissident Congress

There are some strange unmarked police vehicles out there. In 1999 I was stopped twice by unmarked police cars in the Bath area. One was a D reg Toyota MR2 and the other was an old Y reg Opel Manta. It intrigued me that the police would use these cars or anything that old.

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Dissident Congress

Promoting Populist Patriotism

Our Nation - Our People - Our Heritage - Our Future

g hall

Sir Robert Peel who was instrumental in developing the Police Force (note bolding) developed nine principles of policing:

1. The basic mission for which the police exist is to prevent crime and disorder.
2. The ability of the police to perform their duties is dependent upon the public approval of police actions.
3. Police must secure the willing co-operation of the public in voluntary observation of the law to be able to secure and maintain the respect of the public.
4. The degree of co-operation of the public that can be secured diminishes proportionately to the necessity of the use of physical force.
5. Police seek and preserve public favor not by catering to public opinion, but by constantly demonstrating absolute impartial service to the law.
6. Police use physical force to the extent necessary to secure observance of the law or to restore order only when the exercise of persuasion, advice, and warning is found to be insufficient.
7. Police, at all times, should maintain a relationship with the public that gives reality to the historic tradition that the police are the public and the public are the police; the police being only members of the public who are paid to give full-time attention to duties which are incumbent upon every citizen in the interests of community welfare and existence.
8. Police should always direct their action strictly towards their functions, and never appear to usurp the powers of the judiciary.
9. The test of police efficiency is the absence of crime and disorder, not the visible evidence of police action in dealing with it.

How many agree with me that the unmarked speed trap van fails these points, indeed much of modern policing fails these points which is why we're up the creek without a paddle.


The Bear
Have you read the highway code about overtaking
Rule 168
Being overtaken. If a driver is trying to overtake you, maintain a steady course and speed, slowing down if necessary to let the vehicle pass. Never obstruct drivers who wish to pass. Speeding up or driving unpredictably while someone is overtaking you is dangerous. Drop back to maintain a two-second gap if someone overtakes and pulls into the gap in front of you.




Rule 169
Do not hold up a long queue of traffic, especially if you are driving a large or slow-moving vehicle. Check your mirrors frequently, and if necessary, pull in where it is safe and let traffic pass.



The Bear YOU are not a police officer if someone exceeds a posted limit AND they may have good reason to do so the best advice is get out of the way and let them go only a complete idiot who should not be driving impedes others

__________________
"That government is best which governs least."
"This is a sharp Medicine, but it is a Physician for all diseases and miseries".
"To be "matter of fact" about the world is to blunder into fantasy --and dull fantasy at that, as the real world is strange and wonderful."

The Bear

If a number of drivers are observing the speed limit the effect is that all traffic in the traffic column will be observing the speed limit even the fools who don’t want to.

Nothing wrong with that.


If I’m driving at the posted speed for the road then I’m driving responsibly. If people want to break the law why should I help them?


Not at all. The roads are for all and principally the people who obey the LAW.

I have paid my vehicle excise duties, I have paid my insurance, my car has a valid MOT which I renew at nine monthly intervals to be better able to have confidence in the roadworthiness of my car which I have serviced regularly anyway.

Why then should I not use the roads in a legal manner and be expected to give preference to some young fool “on a mission” and why should my safety be put at risk by people flouting the law.

Speeding is as bad as being under the influence of drink or drugs behind the wheel or being over tired.

On the subject of being over tired I am in favour of tachographs and legislation on drivers hours and rest periods for all drivers on the roads especially private car drivers and not just HGV and PSV drivers.

The roads are dangerous. They are not places for enjoyment, they are the means of getting from A to B and nothing more.

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I am an old man. I have eaten much salt.

Westcountryman

You know someone hasn't read the 9 principles of policing when...

FYI:

Quote:

The Nine Principles of Policing

Principles of Good Policing

Sure, they're supposed to investigate crimes and prosecute offenders when crimes occur, however their primary function is the prevention of crime. Detection is secondary.

Rubbish, when you're purposefully using underhand methods just to ensnare people, it's gone a step too far. It should be the primary function of the police to have an effective presence and prevent crime by changing behaviour through their presence, not be as sneaky as possible to try and get a prosecution. Marked cars achieve this.

So would a MARKED car.

You're telling me a marked police car/van is incapable of detecting untaxed or uninsured vehicles? Didn't think so.

Again, no reason you can't do this in a marked car/van.

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Manus haec inimica tyrannis ense petit placidam sub libertate quietam - "This hand of mine, which is hostile to tyrants, seeks by the sword quiet peace under liberty."

Ea of Dune

Talking of road tax, that's top of the list of sh** taxes that'd be abolished. I'd stick toll boothes on the major motorways etc. then people using those roads frequently both British and foreign can pay for their usage and upkeep. Seems a hell of a lot fairer then taxing some granny who lives in the sticks and uses her car to go to the shops, whilst Manuel the lorry driver from Alacante does 10,000 miles on British motorways each year and does not pay a penny.
The French and US toll roads are a good example of how this can work.

Ea of dune

Ea of Dune

Agreed above with regards to the coppers actually being visible.
I wonder how many people have been done for "speeding" when an undercover van/tramp/wheel barrow with a speed gun captures them slowing down froma 40 into a 30 or is sitting at the bottom of a hill capturing people going 5 miles an hour to fast as they speed up slightly on the down slope.

The police should be visible, they should use discretion and they should be fair. In my experience they are often none of the above.

Ea of dune

g hall

On the contrary the actions of these self proclaimed "policemen" may cause an accident e.g. if a driver wishes to overtake then they could be exposed to the danger position for longer because someone wishes to show these "fools" a lesson.

No you are not, you are driving very irresponsibly you should be aware at all times what is happening around you and making allowances for other people not just saying "I'm a safe driver I drive within the speed limit"
safe driving is about so much more then obeying a speed limit

No the public highway is for everybody pedestrians, cyclists, horse riders and drivers of many different vehicles

I pay my taxes and ensure any vehicles I drive are roadworthy and serviced properly


I think you've just given yourself away here as you feel that only young fools speed and there are many other laws which drivers of all ages and both sexes flout which are far more dangerous then exceeding a speed limit when the road conditions permit

Depends on the circumstances and no I don't drink or drug and drive and try to be home before I'm tired but if I am I stop and get some coffee or a drink like Red Bull

Presumably you insure yourself with Aviva an have a blackbox in your vehicle

And sex is for reproduction and nothing more

In Independent research excessive speed as a causal factor in accidents has been recorded as being being between 7 and 12 % that is 1 in 12 to 1 in 8 so at the very worst that leaves other factors with a ratio of 7 in 8
We don't see the powers that be concentrating on these do we, is it because the factors are harder to measure and therefore harder to prove
It used to be that ACPO recommended 10%+2 before prosecuting a motorist for speeding because so much money can be raised that has gone out the window and respect for the police has dropped
A further point many councils have lowered speed limits and continue to do so can you explain why a road which has a limit of NSL in week one and then a limit of 50 or even 40 in week is any more dangerous when no changes have been made

__________________
"That government is best which governs least."
"This is a sharp Medicine, but it is a Physician for all diseases and miseries".
"To be "matter of fact" about the world is to blunder into fantasy --and dull fantasy at that, as the real world is strange and wonderful."