That says it all!!!!!!Originally Posted by Aardvark
Don't tell us CP are all lizards!!!
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That says it all!!!!!!
Don't tell us CP are all lizards!!!
He's a smart man whatever his role. I spotted that site EU truth years ago and felt it stood above the rest. It told me things I did not know, it educated me about the EU and it got to the facts like no lesser site could do. I had no idea who he was or what he was, just my overwhelming impression was he knew his stuff. So who cares, you get bus drivers who are members of Mensa and all sorts. He does not come across as someone who needs to keep reminding people of his position, more like the kind who plays it down like you say.
Aardvark,sorry to disagree,but,you of all posters on here are the only one to constantly drop hints about position,and, quietly pull rank and puff themselves up.Looking through what and when you respond it seems obvious that you are an OUTRIGHT EU supporter who is solely engaged in preventing the anti EU fraternity from debating the deciet of the EU and our MPs who so vehemently try to sell it to the people of these Isles.
I would like to think that you have really fooled nobody,but yourself.(Excludes Chik.)
Yes and when one considers what Chatham House is, well I suppose it says it all. There must have been some Chatham House rules going on at the time when they were debating WMDs on the BBC. Look up the Wikipedia entry on Chatham House. It masterfully disguises what it really is!
H, There is not a single post that I have made that labels me as an EU supporter. If I disagree with others who like me are opposed to the EU it is on the substance of their arguments or their method for withdrawing us from the mess etc.
It's not about pulling rank or puffing myself, but trying to give a credible basis for my points. In order to justify my opinions on a variety of subjects it is often necessary to explain why my views are relevant. I like to be able to prove the points I make, but you will note that I am also quick to accept corrections or valid opinions from all sorts of sources. If I don't give some of the background as to why my view is more relevant than someone who hasn't worked in the area I have or studied the subjects I have then people will come straight back and ask me how I know such things or question the validity of my arguments (I know because it happens all the time).
It is indeed true that lack of qualifications is no indication of lack of intellect, but when people use spurious or irrelevant qualifications to give credence to their arguments then it riles me. I respect people for their skills and qualifications, but I never cease to be amazed how many of the people who put the arguments on CP etc forward don't respect others for their opinions.
Some of the arguments I have encountered around the net are based on dubious foundations to say the least. There are a group of conspiracy theory nuts who do more damage to the cause by their ill considered campaigns and comments. The Illuminati and DVD might really exist, CP might even be a front for both, but the people who deliver that message do us no favours by pretending they have some special insight based on non-existent qualifications and unsubstantiated 'research'.
You might have noted on another thread that David Noakes poo pooed a point I made about Albert Burgess' legal opinion by saying that Albert's opinion was valid because his experience as a policeman meant he knew the law of evidence. In fact Albert was a Special Constable and not a person who knows in detail the law of evidence or even the criminal law for that matter. David also told me I was guilty of an offence that I have neither committed nor been charged with just because I disagreed with him. He told me that he had seen papers that proved that Hurd et al had committed treason. I have seen many of the same papers and they don't even provide a case to answer.
At that stage it is not puffing myself to point out that, IMHO, they are wrong and that I have 5 years of formal legal training under my belt that allows me to form that opinion with slightly more authority. It is always the people who can't even get onto a law course who are quickest to be instant experts in the law.
I am rapidly tiring of the conspiracy theorists. They don't actually achieve anything. They bring us no closer to leaving the EU and they alienate the very constituency we must persuade.
If CP has 80,000 'graduates' it is a massive organisation (bigger than UKIP to start with) and if we are to 'defeat' it we must establish who these graduates are and persuade them of the error of their ways. If we start from the position that all the classes of people who have been trained by CP are the enemy and are under the influence of the Illuminati then we immediately alienate the people we will need to run the country if we come to power, or are the people who oppose CP determined to sack all NHS managers and local government officials on day one of a UKIP government? That should win a lot of votes the moment it gets out!!!
You might note that I am careful not to get too involved in the global warming threads, not because the discussion doesn't interest me, but I accept that I am not a scientist and haven't read the great volume of evidence that has been produced by both sides. I retain an open, sceptical and enquiring mind on the subject, but leave the debating to those who have had more time to study it at length. I do note, however, that there are conspiracy theories abounding about that as well.
I try to confine myself, in general terms, to those areas where I genuinely have qualifications or experience that I think will add to the debate or where I feel I have read sufficiently of educated and informed opinion to make a valid contribution.
It would be nice if more people did the same so that when I read threads I am reading educated and informed opinion rather than utter drivel.
Last edited by Aardvark; 02-11-2007 at 09:13 PM.
That's why when I wrote them a letter I wrote it with someone who had a bit of intelligence in mind. There are a lot of clever and well-meaning people who have just not been given and/or exposed to the other side of the story. During life, even people in this position will eventually learn by experience, I had to because no one told me but it can take many years. If I recall what I thought about the world when at university I'd really be kicking myself now.
Actually I went from being a fairly wise kid who had his mind squashed and distorted by the experience and it took me many years to piece it all together. That's what it is all about at school, they constantly feed you with one side of the story and even leave out the most obvious truths. Then these people get shoved straight into A levels, degrees, 10 000 word essays and no time to think. So they are victims of the control mechanism that exists in society, the one called socialism, to put it bluntly.
I remember I had one history teacher that had actually visited the old Soviet Union before 1989. She was a saviour, she told us what the real deal was and I'm very grateful to this day. Most regarded he as more of your Mary Whitehouse figure but she had an important message to transmit. Brian Gerrish has one as well.
That's ridiculous.
Just because you don't agree with something Aardvark does or says doesn't mean he is a traitor to his cause.
I presume you're referring to me, H? I seem to recall us locking horns in the past when your diatribes against Aardvark got a bit too ridiculous. I'm all for a good debate, I just feel that ad hominem attacks diminish the person who issues them. Of course, if there are libellous comments made on this site, they damage not only the credibility of the individual but also the credibility of this forum.
There again, that may be the result that's wanted by the likes of DN et al.
My experience has taught me never to take anybody at face value. Rest assured, I don't fool easily.
Mikeuk,who said he was "a traitor to HIS CAUSE"
IMHO he is only pro EU and in no way a traitor to any cause.
H, Point me to a 'pro-EU' post of mine and explain how I have become pro-EU after 33 years of opposition.
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