Blair may go nuclear on ID Cards!

arden forester · 02-07-2005, 11:23 AM

I'm not reckoning terrorists will register just flee to a safer haven. The bottom line is that these New Labour plonkers have not thought it out. It's just the same with the religious incitement bill! :roll: :shock:

Stephen Booth · 02-07-2005, 02:35 PM

The comment made by the Conservatives about surveillance from the cradle to the grave is right. Identity Cards have to be viewed in conjunction with all the other things going on like CCTV and automatic number plate recognition.

The first part of the answer is for it to be thrown out of pparliament, which implies the MPs actually do something to stop it. There needs to be campaigns to put pressure on the Labour MPs who voted for it. The MPs with wafer slender majorities might be amenable to that sort of thing.

But in the long run I think they will pass it through, probably invoking the Parliament act against the House of Lords.

It is exactly like the poll tax, and failing all the other supposed constitutional safeguards and checks and balances to pwer, which have little real effect, I think the people will just have to block it through widespread civil disobedience.

IceDragon · 02-07-2005, 08:59 PM

The civil disobedience if it does come will probably be more Mau mau than miffed.

arden forester · 03-07-2005, 09:31 AM

Bully-boy Clarke lives up to his name!
http://www.politics.co.uk/domestic-policy/ministers-bullied-critics-id-card-scheme-$14004693.htm

Bluemerle · 03-07-2005, 12:56 PM

Michael Howard is all for ID cards, he told the tory parliamentary party last December that if they weren't going to vote for them, they should go Christmas shopping. :roll:

mkpdavies · 04-07-2005, 12:43 PM

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/polit...520163,00.html

Quote:

Hundreds of thousands of people are set to defy the government by refusing to carry ID cards, despite the risk of imprisonment.

Campaigners say that a network of anti-ID card groups, ranging from hackers to anarchists, plans a series of assaults in the coming months to try to block the scheme. A £1 million fund is being raised to help pay legal fees if, as expected, prosecutions are brought once the cards become compulsory, probably in 2010

.

I love the way it says it is people from hackers to anarchists. The fact most of the people against them are ordinary Joes doesn't need mentioning.

mkpdavies · 04-07-2005, 03:39 PM

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/a...urce=PA%20Feed

Quote:

Support for identity cards has slumped dramatically since the Government tabled legislation to introduce them, according to a YouGov survey in the Daily Telegraph.

It suggests that backing for the controversial cards now stands at just 45% - well down on the 78% who backed them in a similar survey in 2003.

Quote:

Meanwhile, just 25% said that they would be prepared to see the Government's estimate of £6bn spent on introducing ID cards, against 66% who said it was too much to spend.

When asked if they would support the cards if they cost £19bn - the top range of the estimate of an independent study by the London School of Economics, which has been dismissed by the Home Office - just 10% said Yes, against 81% who said No.

Let's see how arrogant this fools really are.

IceDragon · 05-07-2005, 05:28 PM

I and I hope the rest of us are not willing to be citizens of the country which b.Liar is creating. I for one am not a citizen of a country in which the necessary skills are how to claim benefits and contact the CRE. That is not my country and never will be. Remember, the rules of engagement according to the UN. If your government has disenfranchised you you are within your rights to do what is necessary toward the machinery of that regime to fight for autonomy. Some may call it revolution, some may call it insurgency, others may call it resistance. I call it doing what is needed within the parameters of the law, be it the law of the land, if that is effectively taken away international law then prevails. The people of a country very rarely decide to unjustifiably make war on a government,, it is usually the government which has made war on it's own people.

A comment on the presidential motorcade of Mr b.Liar. Like many megalomaniac "leaders" such as Mugabe and Ceausescu, the main enemy of people like b.Liar is not foreign assassins and terrorists, no, they are protecting themselves from their own people. He knows what the average British citizen (if we can call ourselves that for much longer) is capable and willing to do to him.

tyke · 05-07-2005, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arden forester

Quote:

Scotland has already said it will not include that country in the id cards on anything that has been devolved to Scotland, which is just about everything, including the NHS.

Surely the ID card bill must cover the whole of the UK otherwise the 570,000 illegal immigrants will all go north of the border, along with terrorists, subversives, and deviants! Has Alex Salmond thought of that? :roll: :shock:

Its true. The Big Brother Scheme will not be fully participated in, in Scotland. The id cards apply mainly to England and Wales. The Welsh Assembly has yet to issue a statement, though. They only announced recently that top up fees would not apply to Wales and are only for students in England, so I expect they will wait a little longer as regards the id cards, but you can safely bet that they will take the same stand as Scotland.

----------------------------------------------------------------

ID cards will not be needed to access devolved services in Scotland.

The Minister for Finance and Public Service Reform Tom McCabe reassured members in the Scottish Parliament today.

He took the opportunity to clarify some of the "unhelpful confusion" around the issue of ID cards.

Mr McCabe said:

"I welcome this opportunity to update the Parliament on the identity card scheme being proposed at Westminster. It is helpful at this time, not long after the Bill has been re-introduced, to set out how the proposals will affect Scotland, and what our position is.

"First I must make it clear once again that the proposals for an identity card scheme confine themselves to reserved policy areas only. Our role, if Westminster seeks to legislate in ways which might affect areas of policy devolved to this Parliament, is to make sure that the devolution settlement is respected and maintained.

"I repeat that we are satisfied that its provisions and the powers it would create are for reserved purposes only. In terms of our position on the use of ID cards in Scotland, we have been very clear that we do not wish to link them to the provision of devolved services. Any change in this position would require an Act of the Scottish Parliament. There can be no more solid assurance about our approach to the scheme.

"I hope that we can now put behind us the unhelpful confusion which has been generated around this issue. ID cards are the responsibility of the UK Government and this legislation will not affect how Scots decide about devolved matters.

http://www.egovmonitor.com/node/1411

02-07-2005, 11:23 AM	#11 (permalink)
arden forester Uber Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Solihull, in The Forest of Arden, Warwickshire! Posts: 2,699 Party: None	I'm not reckoning terrorists will register just flee to a safer haven. The bottom line is that these New Labour plonkers have not thought it out. It's just the same with the religious incitement bill! :roll: :shock: __________________ www.ardenforester.blogspot.com www.westminster-whispers.blogspot.com

02-07-2005, 02:35 PM	#12 (permalink)
Stephen Booth Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Galgate, Lancaster Posts: 202 Party: None	Plastic poll tax The comment made by the Conservatives about surveillance from the cradle to the grave is right. Identity Cards have to be viewed in conjunction with all the other things going on like CCTV and automatic number plate recognition. The first part of the answer is for it to be thrown out of pparliament, which implies the MPs actually do something to stop it. There needs to be campaigns to put pressure on the Labour MPs who voted for it. The MPs with wafer slender majorities might be amenable to that sort of thing. But in the long run I think they will pass it through, probably invoking the Parliament act against the House of Lords. It is exactly like the poll tax, and failing all the other supposed constitutional safeguards and checks and balances to pwer, which have little real effect, I think the people will just have to block it through widespread civil disobedience. __________________ Britain Out of Europe Now !

03-07-2005, 09:31 AM	#14 (permalink)
arden forester Uber Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Solihull, in The Forest of Arden, Warwickshire! Posts: 2,699 Party: None	Bully-boy Clarke lives up to his name! http://www.politics.co.uk/domestic-policy/ministers-bullied-critics-id-card-scheme-$14004693.htm __________________ www.ardenforester.blogspot.com www.westminster-whispers.blogspot.com

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02-07-2005, 08:59 PM	#13 (permalink)
IceDragon Senior Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 1,048	The civil disobedience if it does come will probably be more Mau mau than miffed.

03-07-2005, 12:56 PM	#15 (permalink)
Bluemerle Uber Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Dorset. Posts: 3,252	Michael Howard is all for ID cards, he told the tory parliamentary party last December that if they weren't going to vote for them, they should go Christmas shopping. :roll:

05-07-2005, 05:28 PM	#18 (permalink)
IceDragon Senior Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 1,048	I and I hope the rest of us are not willing to be citizens of the country which b.Liar is creating. I for one am not a citizen of a country in which the necessary skills are how to claim benefits and contact the CRE. That is not my country and never will be. Remember, the rules of engagement according to the UN. If your government has disenfranchised you you are within your rights to do what is necessary toward the machinery of that regime to fight for autonomy. Some may call it revolution, some may call it insurgency, others may call it resistance. I call it doing what is needed within the parameters of the law, be it the law of the land, if that is effectively taken away international law then prevails. The people of a country very rarely decide to unjustifiably make war on a government,, it is usually the government which has made war on it's own people. A comment on the presidential motorcade of Mr b.Liar. Like many megalomaniac "leaders" such as Mugabe and Ceausescu, the main enemy of people like b.Liar is not foreign assassins and terrorists, no, they are protecting themselves from their own people. He knows what the average British citizen (if we can call ourselves that for much longer) is capable and willing to do to him.