Does UKIP oppose "incitement to relegious hatred"

Intbel · 11-06-2005, 11:59 PM

I detest all organised religion.
I am stating how I feel.
I think all organised religions do more harm than good.
I am stating what I think.

Is stating how I feel and what I think an incitement to others to do similarly?

I think not, yet the law seems to interpret it as being so.

Far better to have a law which makes it a punishable offence to mislead folks by preaching opinions, myths and faery tales as facts.

Far better to have a law which makes it an offence to solicit money from people by the same preaching.

And far better to have a law which disallows superstitious cults to have a say in, or have an influence over, the running of our country.

All religions appear to demonise all other religions so all preachers of all religions could be accused of incitement to religious hatred. Perhaps the law is a good idea after all, it could be fun, could it not.

gareth2 · 12-06-2005, 11:21 PM

News article filed by BNP news team

"A few weeks ago we published news about Lancashire Constabulary handing over £5,000 to each of two Muslims who claimed they were victims of racial abuse at a public meeting in Clitheroe and claimed that two police officers present at that meeting failed to deal with the issue.

A number of BNP supporters wrote to the force to enquire if this was in fact correct and asking for an explanation.We are publishing the text of that reply, which confirms that if a crime does occur and the perpetrators have not been arrested, charged and convicted, the police will pay compensation.

Now that a precedent has been set Lancashire folk are advised to get their submissions for compensation in quick – everyone who has been a victim of vandalism, theft, burglary, assault and everyone who has been kept awake at night from noisy neighbours and where the culprits have not been apprehended could get a share of the loot from Lancashire Constabulary. "

Text of reply

The letter from the Divisional Commander reads:

"Thank you for your recent communication concerning compensation made to the Medina Islamic Education Centre by the Lancashire Constabulary.

This reply has also been forwarded to numerous other people seeking both clarification and an explanation as to the appropriateness and legitimacy of the decisions made.

On the 16th March, 2003, a public meeting was held in Clitheroe regarding a planning application, submitted on behalf of the Medina Islamic Education Centre and relating to a proposed mosque. The meeting was to be well attended and a decision was made, quite correctly, for police officers to be present. This decision was proportionate to the potential conflict arising from the differing view points of those persons expected to attend, on what was becoming an emotive issue.

Following the meeting, a complaint was made alleging that comments of a racist nature were voiced during the meeting and that police officers present failed to take appropriate action.

These allegations were investigated thoroughly, as is any complaint submitted to the Lancashire Constabulary. The finding reveals that there were, in fact, comments of a racist nature made during the meeting and that the subsequent police response was unacceptable, in that those officers present failed to take any appropriate action.

Following the findings of this investigation, legal advice was sought in relation to the most reasonable way to resolve the issues raised. This advice resulted in the Lancashire Constabulary making a public apology for the lack of police action and awarding £5,000 in compensation. Such awards are used by the vast majority of organisations, including other public services, as a proper means with which to resolve substantiated complaints.

As a result of this incident the Lancashire Constabulary has learned from the mistakes made and any individual officer(s) involved have been advised accordingly.

Chief Superintendent
Divisional Commander "

Well, there you have it.

Regards,
Gareth.

IceDragon · 14-06-2005, 09:40 PM

They may only prosecute blatant incitement for a while, things that would have been illegal under present laws, those must be ignored or they will make us look like extremist.

If and when this law comes in we have to wait. Wait for the first case by a Muslim against someone who criticises Islam, as in Australia they jailed a Pakistani Christian who fled death by Islam and he only quoted the Koran to make his point.

If that happens here we must listen when any Imam or Muslim spokesman opens their mouth.

Flood the police with complaints, the police must be swamped with complaints and reports of anti British Muslim preachers criticising other religions.

gareth2 · 14-06-2005, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IceDragon

If that happens here we must listen when any Imam or Muslim spokesman opens their mouth.

I will continue to tell them to shove it up thier ass or go home. It would help if the moderators here wernt already deleting such posts in anticipation of the law of course, because the whole flippin point of this law isnt the prosecutions, it is the self censorship which will become rampant.

Quote:

Flood the police with complaints, the police must be swamped with complaints and reports of anti British Muslim preachers criticising other religions.

There is an old army phrase that i think applies well here; "if you cant dazzle them with brilliance blind them with bulls**t"

Regards,
Gareth.

IceDragon · 14-06-2005, 09:51 PM

http://islamcomicbook.com/music/Islamnot4me.mp3

I wonder if this would come under the legislation?

From this comic book, not bad actually!
http://islamcomicbook.com/index.htm

mkpdavies · 21-06-2005, 11:09 PM

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4114582.stm

Quote:

The government has survived a backbench revolt over its plans for a new law to ban the incitement to religious hatred.
An amendment from a coalition of Tory and Lib Dem MPs to block the Racial and Religious Hatred Bill failed by 303 votes to 246, giving a majority of 57.

Labour MP's line up like mindless droids and vote for their careers again.

The 1 in 5 people that voted this shower of scum back in should be ASHAMED of themselves.

gus · 22-06-2005, 03:17 AM

I'm going to start a new religion, with the sole purpose of inciting hatred towards every other religion.
Thus being protected by the full umbrella of the proposed law.

That is obviously a joke, but it wouldnt be the only religion who did that.

Banning religion itself would probably prove to be a more easily achieveable task, and an infinitely more productive one.

BritishPatriot · 05-07-2005, 09:51 PM

Will anyone quoting the Koran get banned under this law? Or does the law only hold when the BNP quote it?

Quote:

Here is the Koran on those with a lack of correct religious belief

22.9 As for the unbelievers, for them garments of fire shall be cut and there shall be poured over their heads boiling water whereby whatever is in their bowels and skins shall be dissolved and they will be punished with hooked iron rods.

And on Christians

They surely are infidels who say god is the third of three; for there is but one god; and if they do not refrain from what they say, a severe punishment shall light on those who are unbelievers.

And on Jews

4.160, 161 Because of the wickedness of certain Jews, and because they turn many from the way of god we have forbidden them good and wholesome foods which were formerly allowed them; and because they have taken to usury, though they were forbidden it; and have cheated others of their possessions, we have prepared a grievous punishment for the infidels amongst them.

On Jews and Christians

Why don't their rabbis and doctors of law forbid them from uttering sinful words and eating unlawful food? Evil indeed are their works. The hand of god is chained up cry the Jews. Their own hands shall be chained up and they shall be cursed for saying such a thing.

5.51 Believers do not take Jews or Christians as friends. They are but one another's friends. If anyone of you takes them for his friends then he is surely one of them. God will not guide evil doers.

Now I don't say that the Koran is unique in its hostility to other creeds, and there are doubtless plenty of other inflammatory texts associated with plenty of other religions

But I would like the minister to explain to us all, here and now, why and how he thinks the repetition of those words, in a public or a private place, does not amount to an incitement to religious hatred of exactly the kind that this bill is supposed to ban.

My point is that if this bill makes any sense at all, it must mean banning the reading - in public or private - of a great many passages of the Koran itself

http://www.boris-johnson.com/archive...ks_this_i.html

Intbel · 05-07-2005, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Here is the Koran on those with a lack of correct religious belief

Er ... what is the "correct" religious belief, please?

Quote:

My point is that if this bill makes any sense at all, it must mean banning the reading - in public or private - of a great many passages of the Koran itself

Yep - and the Holy Bible also ...

BritishPatriot · 05-07-2005, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Intbel

Er ... what is the "correct" religious belief, please?

The paragraph before it reads:

Quote:

And since this Bill is intended to offer protection to Muslims, let me now read certain excerpts from the Koran, and I will invite the minister to imagine that I am an Imam or mullah and I must apologise to any Muslims who may be listening or watching, because I hope it will be obvious that what I am about to say is not intended to be disrespectful to the Koran but to make a point about the logic - or absence of logic - of this bill

Quote:

Originally Posted by Intbel

Yep - and the Holy Bible also ...

The Muslim Council of Britain support this law, whereas I do not know any christian organization that does. Muslims must be the greatest hypocrites supporting a law that bans their own religious-hatred-inciting Koran. Or perhaps after all they are not so silly and know the law only holds if the BNP quotes their book of "peace".

View Poll Results: Do you oppose this bill?
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11-06-2005, 11:59 PM	#31 (permalink)
Intbel Uber Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: In a field near you - look for the yellow and purple tent ... Posts: 4,665	I detest all organised religion. I am stating how I feel. I think all organised religions do more harm than good. I am stating what I think. Is stating how I feel and what I think an incitement to others to do similarly? I think not, yet the law seems to interpret it as being so. Far better to have a law which makes it a punishable offence to mislead folks by preaching opinions, myths and faery tales as facts. Far better to have a law which makes it an offence to solicit money from people by the same preaching. And far better to have a law which disallows superstitious cults to have a say in, or have an influence over, the running of our country. All religions appear to demonise all other religions so all preachers of all religions could be accused of incitement to religious hatred. Perhaps the law is a good idea after all, it could be fun, could it not. __________________ We are all free to choose - every step of the way - no exceptions.

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12-06-2005, 11:21 PM	#32 (permalink)
gareth2 Senior Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 731	News article filed by BNP news team "A few weeks ago we published news about Lancashire Constabulary handing over £5,000 to each of two Muslims who claimed they were victims of racial abuse at a public meeting in Clitheroe and claimed that two police officers present at that meeting failed to deal with the issue. A number of BNP supporters wrote to the force to enquire if this was in fact correct and asking for an explanation.We are publishing the text of that reply, which confirms that if a crime does occur and the perpetrators have not been arrested, charged and convicted, the police will pay compensation. Now that a precedent has been set Lancashire folk are advised to get their submissions for compensation in quick – everyone who has been a victim of vandalism, theft, burglary, assault and everyone who has been kept awake at night from noisy neighbours and where the culprits have not been apprehended could get a share of the loot from Lancashire Constabulary. " Text of reply The letter from the Divisional Commander reads: "Thank you for your recent communication concerning compensation made to the Medina Islamic Education Centre by the Lancashire Constabulary. This reply has also been forwarded to numerous other people seeking both clarification and an explanation as to the appropriateness and legitimacy of the decisions made. On the 16th March, 2003, a public meeting was held in Clitheroe regarding a planning application, submitted on behalf of the Medina Islamic Education Centre and relating to a proposed mosque. The meeting was to be well attended and a decision was made, quite correctly, for police officers to be present. This decision was proportionate to the potential conflict arising from the differing view points of those persons expected to attend, on what was becoming an emotive issue. Following the meeting, a complaint was made alleging that comments of a racist nature were voiced during the meeting and that police officers present failed to take appropriate action. These allegations were investigated thoroughly, as is any complaint submitted to the Lancashire Constabulary. The finding reveals that there were, in fact, comments of a racist nature made during the meeting and that the subsequent police response was unacceptable, in that those officers present failed to take any appropriate action. Following the findings of this investigation, legal advice was sought in relation to the most reasonable way to resolve the issues raised. This advice resulted in the Lancashire Constabulary making a public apology for the lack of police action and awarding £5,000 in compensation. Such awards are used by the vast majority of organisations, including other public services, as a proper means with which to resolve substantiated complaints. As a result of this incident the Lancashire Constabulary has learned from the mistakes made and any individual officer(s) involved have been advised accordingly. Chief Superintendent Divisional Commander " Well, there you have it. Regards, Gareth.

14-06-2005, 09:40 PM	#33 (permalink)
IceDragon Senior Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 1,048	They may only prosecute blatant incitement for a while, things that would have been illegal under present laws, those must be ignored or they will make us look like extremist. If and when this law comes in we have to wait. Wait for the first case by a Muslim against someone who criticises Islam, as in Australia they jailed a Pakistani Christian who fled death by Islam and he only quoted the Koran to make his point. If that happens here we must listen when any Imam or Muslim spokesman opens their mouth. Flood the police with complaints, the police must be swamped with complaints and reports of anti British Muslim preachers criticising other religions.

14-06-2005, 09:51 PM	#35 (permalink)
IceDragon Senior Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 1,048	http://islamcomicbook.com/music/Islamnot4me.mp3 I wonder if this would come under the legislation? From this comic book, not bad actually! http://islamcomicbook.com/index.htm

22-06-2005, 03:17 AM	#37 (permalink)
gus Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 12	I'm going to start a new religion, with the sole purpose of inciting hatred towards every other religion. Thus being protected by the full umbrella of the proposed law. That is obviously a joke, but it wouldnt be the only religion who did that. Banning religion itself would probably prove to be a more easily achieveable task, and an infinitely more productive one.