Do you support ID cards?

SilverFalcon · 11-06-2005, 10:44 AM

True. But you cannot be as free as you want to be, unless you are willing to take certain risks many of which will hurt you and some will get you killed. That is if people wait too long and take too many of those things you mentioned that are thrown at you. It's a good idea, I agree, to buy a racket and play swing bat as often as you can.

gareth2 · 11-06-2005, 10:54 AM

Further to MKPdavies link on the previous page, this is to take you straight to the petition page;

http://www.no2id-petition.net/

Regards,
Gareth.

mkpdavies · 11-06-2005, 11:05 AM

Have the BNP tried affiliating to the no2id campaign?

SilverFalcon · 11-06-2005, 11:38 AM

Gareth, The whole thing seems soaked in left wing hysteria. What is terrible is the money asked. It's an insanely high amount. You need a referendum.

Intbel · 11-06-2005, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SilverFalcon

Why are you all so afraid of Identity Cards?

We have birth certificates, driving licences and passports as well as National Insurance thingos.

We have all the I.D. we need already.

The problem with the proposed I.D. cards is that we will not know what information they contain. Many may say if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear.

I disagree with this. Firstly because discrimination is alive and well in many areas and can be implemented without one being aware of it or the reasons for it.

Secondly errors can be made. There is no guarrantee that information stored within the chips on thes cards is accurate and that is a cause for concern.

Anyway, if I want to prove my I.D. all I need to do is look in a mirror

Intbel · 11-06-2005, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkpdavies

You want to pay 300 quid for ANOTHER pieace of plasitc and be finger printed like a common criminal, then go ahead.

You have a choice:http://www.ukipforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?p=37654#37654

SilverFalcon · 11-06-2005, 01:26 PM

There are pros and cons to identity cards but a few pros in a terrorism haunted and criminal-infested world can make them very useful. And it is true that if you haven't done anything illegal and aren't planning to you have little to fear from them. What I object to more is the close monitoring and obscene spying on citizens by marketing forces. Tagging you at the shop to see where the goods end up. Probing your internet behaviour, watching you for an opportunity to get your consumer profile. This is intrusion that is constant and real and difficult to avoid. Your every orifice is filled with junk mail. You cannot afford to have an e-mail address or you are spammed with rubbish that seems to go on forever. You are invaded and spied on by big business and by criminals all the time and no one has made a big enough fuss of this. People are not aware that as you surf they watch you. Like sex offenders they keep offering you "cookies".

gareth2 · 11-06-2005, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkpdavies

Have the BNP tried affiliating to the no2id campaign?

Not as far as i know.

regards,
Gareth.

Simon · 11-06-2005, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkpdavies

Have the BNP tried affiliating to the no2id campaign?

http://www.bnp.org.uk/news_detail.php?newsId=321

SilverFalcon · 11-06-2005, 07:12 PM

You have to be careful of a new kind of liberal fascism climbing onto the back of a degrading old one. I looked at Gareth's link to Charter88 and friends. University based. That means today that it will be terminally lefty and dominated by do-goodiness and be very bossy and full of itself, like the current crop of idealists who believe they can change the world just by personally wanting to change it, forgetting that there are people in it besides themselves who may disagree loudly from both near and far. I have a bit of a crawly feeling about these do-gooders. Too keen to get in and look up everyone's dress. What is this "Manifesto watch" nonsense? It has become fashionable to watch everyone and everything. They are totally and vehemently against ID cards yet not against making sweeping eagle eye based watch tower projects for everyone with blood circulation. They worry me. They look like born again fascists to me. Too nosy. Too certain that their way is the best and that entirely broken down structures are the way to go.

You must have some centrality in governing a country, or you have little communes of people who become parochial and nasty and narrow minded and mean. They start thinking they are the centre of the universe because the universe shrinks to the size of their group and they make decisions based on whims and these can sometimes be bad for larger groups. If you are ever attacked by a concerted effort from a more organised and cohesive outside force you will be toast. There will have been no national unity and this is when you discover, too late, that diversity is not only not strength but that it can spell disaster if taken to extremes or enforced by batty little people with controller personalities and colossal egos.

People are mad about liberty right now. I fear they are too mad about it. It has a manic feel about it. Out with the old and in with the new and trash everything that went before. It could mean the final nail in the coffin of our civilization as we have known it and although you may think it stinks now wait till you see what's waiting when Mummy gets to steer the ship of state and make all the rules and Daddy gets to stay home with the brats on a political scale. I know there are men in this venture but how far can they go without being sent to bed without any supper or forced to sit in the corner because they raised a small voice of concern, or felt the way I do. And I'm a girl. Revolutions can be dangerous when fuelled by hysteria and I smell new age hysteria everywhere.

View Poll Results: Do you support ID cards?
Yes	0	0%
No	25	100.00%
Voters: 25. You may not vote on this poll

11-06-2005, 11:05 AM	#23 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 31,158 Party: Libertarian Party	Have the BNP tried affiliating to the no2id campaign? __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

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11-06-2005, 10:44 AM	#21 (permalink)
SilverFalcon Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 1,059	True. But you cannot be as free as you want to be, unless you are willing to take certain risks many of which will hurt you and some will get you killed. That is if people wait too long and take too many of those things you mentioned that are thrown at you. It's a good idea, I agree, to buy a racket and play swing bat as often as you can.

11-06-2005, 10:54 AM	#22 (permalink)
gareth2 Senior Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 731	Further to MKPdavies link on the previous page, this is to take you straight to the petition page; http://www.no2id-petition.net/ Regards, Gareth.

11-06-2005, 11:38 AM	#24 (permalink)
SilverFalcon Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 1,059	Gareth, The whole thing seems soaked in left wing hysteria. What is terrible is the money asked. It's an insanely high amount. You need a referendum.

11-06-2005, 01:26 PM	#27 (permalink)
SilverFalcon Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 1,059	There are pros and cons to identity cards but a few pros in a terrorism haunted and criminal-infested world can make them very useful. And it is true that if you haven't done anything illegal and aren't planning to you have little to fear from them. What I object to more is the close monitoring and obscene spying on citizens by marketing forces. Tagging you at the shop to see where the goods end up. Probing your internet behaviour, watching you for an opportunity to get your consumer profile. This is intrusion that is constant and real and difficult to avoid. Your every orifice is filled with junk mail. You cannot afford to have an e-mail address or you are spammed with rubbish that seems to go on forever. You are invaded and spied on by big business and by criminals all the time and no one has made a big enough fuss of this. People are not aware that as you surf they watch you. Like sex offenders they keep offering you "cookies".

11-06-2005, 07:12 PM	#30 (permalink)
SilverFalcon Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 1,059	You have to be careful of a new kind of liberal fascism climbing onto the back of a degrading old one. I looked at Gareth's link to Charter88 and friends. University based. That means today that it will be terminally lefty and dominated by do-goodiness and be very bossy and full of itself, like the current crop of idealists who believe they can change the world just by personally wanting to change it, forgetting that there are people in it besides themselves who may disagree loudly from both near and far. I have a bit of a crawly feeling about these do-gooders. Too keen to get in and look up everyone's dress. What is this "Manifesto watch" nonsense? It has become fashionable to watch everyone and everything. They are totally and vehemently against ID cards yet not against making sweeping eagle eye based watch tower projects for everyone with blood circulation. They worry me. They look like born again fascists to me. Too nosy. Too certain that their way is the best and that entirely broken down structures are the way to go. You must have some centrality in governing a country, or you have little communes of people who become parochial and nasty and narrow minded and mean. They start thinking they are the centre of the universe because the universe shrinks to the size of their group and they make decisions based on whims and these can sometimes be bad for larger groups. If you are ever attacked by a concerted effort from a more organised and cohesive outside force you will be toast. There will have been no national unity and this is when you discover, too late, that diversity is not only not strength but that it can spell disaster if taken to extremes or enforced by batty little people with controller personalities and colossal egos. People are mad about liberty right now. I fear they are too mad about it. It has a manic feel about it. Out with the old and in with the new and trash everything that went before. It could mean the final nail in the coffin of our civilization as we have known it and although you may think it stinks now wait till you see what's waiting when Mummy gets to steer the ship of state and make all the rules and Daddy gets to stay home with the brats on a political scale. I know there are men in this venture but how far can they go without being sent to bed without any supper or forced to sit in the corner because they raised a small voice of concern, or felt the way I do. And I'm a girl. Revolutions can be dangerous when fuelled by hysteria and I smell new age hysteria everywhere.