Baron von Lotsov

Yes indeed but a lot of voters seem to automatically opt for a mainstream party. I think they still see the Libdems as a half way house between something too right wing (in the BBC sense of the word) or Labour as being too working class. The Libdems tend to attract a lot of the academically snobby people who think they are ahead because they read the Guardian every day. It's ironic really since your average bricklayer would most likely be able to outwit them but it is what they believe. They seem to think it has something to do with freedom and being a bit upwardly mobile they like that idea. You can't reason with them because they already know everything there is to know, but if you actually managed to they would see the massive paradox they support. It's like global warming fanatics, much the same bunch of people who are blinded by an ideology.

I guess having the UKIP campaigning in their marginal constituency is the best possible solution unless it is a Labour marginal. I think both tactics can be applied, to give them stick when they betray their country but also to support them when they don't, or else people will just interpret it as the UKIP hating them no matter what. So if I were those campaigners I'd retarget to the next constituency with a marginal Libdem composition and encourage the eurosceptic position to expand and possibly say that if David Heath is voting for a referendum then why is the next Libdem not. A bit of a steering operation could have a powerful effect and I think it is engaging with the Libdem wanderers and not frightening them off. Either the UKIP gain a good number of votes and the Libdem is out of office or the Libdem votes against his party. Whichever it is it represents a vote and it’s the votes that are all important.

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"A government big enough to supply you with everything you need, is a government big enough to take away everything that you have..."

kernow

You misunderstand me Brit', he's not trying to fool people into thinking he's EUsceptic, because he isn't. He is as keen as ever for Britain to be in the EU. He just thinks the electorate should be given a Referendum on the new treaty!

Britannist

You sound as if you are annoyed with me, Richard, so let me reassure you that I have no doubt that you have an extremely good knowledge of your constituency - Birmingham Yardley.

And that I regarded certain terminology you used as patronising - not the fact that you have a detailed knowledge of the Yardley seat, its wards and the effect of boundary changes.

As for your reference to posting in whatever thread you wish - I have never suggested that you do anything else (who am I to do so?).

I quite genuinely do not want you to 'get taken in' by the Liberal 'Democrats'. I know what they are like - that's all.

Britannist

You are perfectly entitled, Richard, to think the best on this matter of the few Liberal 'Democrat' MPs who allegedly say will vote for an EU Treaty referendum.

But, sadly, I have differ with you on this and conclude that the tactic of the Liberal 'Democrats' could be to take votes away from UKIP candidates in the constituencies those MPs currently hold so that those Liberal 'Democrat' MPs get back at the next General Election ready to vote for more legislation giving more power to the EU.

Britannist

They haven't done it yet.

And if/when they do it, Richard (i.e. vote for an EU Treaty referendum), it will done to take votes off UKIP so they can hold on to their highly marginal constituencies and get back into the Commons after the next General Election to vote for more sovereignty transfers to the EU.

Britannist

The global warming alarmists need to be seen off. Most of them are europhiles I notice.

Britannist

There is no doubt, Baron, that if Heath and the two other Liberal 'Democrat' MPs vote for an EU Treaty referendum it will embarrass those Liberal 'Democrat' MPs who do not.

Britannist

I just think, Kernow, that pro-sovereignty people who vote for these MPs because they said they wanted an EU 'Treaty' referendum will be disappointed if/when they get re-elected and are back in the Commons voting for more power to be given to the EU.

Richard Allen

I am not annoyed with you but your line about not communicating with you required a response. I do not believe that anything I said was patronising and I can assure you that I will not "get taken in" by the Lib Dems who by and large I loathe.

1. If Mr Hemming goes back on his word no one will denounce him more louder than I.

2. This is where I have a real problem with your position. I have no way of knowing what really motivates either Heath or Hemming and neither do you. I am willing to consider that they are being cynical but I also accept that there is a chance that they are acting honourably. You on the other hand simply assume to know their motives.

Hartlepool

Expecting these Liberal Democrats to suddenly become "honourable" seems niave to me.

This stunt is a Standard political tactic for anyone who is on shaky Constituency ground and only wants to cling on to what they have already got,and that is their seat.

If Lembik Opik declared the same as them would we all think the LIB-DEMS had seen the light and were no longer the political arm of the EU within the UK?

Not on your Nellie,they are and always have been conniving,fanatical EU supporters and political cheats.

It's beyond comprehension how they are not openly exposed as liars and EU agents in this country,however,seems they have the ear of some people.

Those who vehemently protest otherwise should be viewed with a certain amount of suspicion IMHO.