War breaks out in Somerton & Frome

Britannist · 16-02-2008, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkpdavies

Time to write to them and congratulate them on having some principle.

Why not wait to see how they actually vote on the day first?

Tom Wilde · 16-02-2008, 03:05 PM

It's encouraging, though, isn't it? Let's hope they stick to their guns and vote as they've indicated.

mkpdavies · 16-02-2008, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Britannist

Why not wait to see how they actually vote on the day first?

Because I want them to feel encouraged to sticking with doing the right thing now.

Britannist · 16-02-2008, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Wilde

It's encouraging, though, isn't it? Let's hope they stick to their guns and vote as they've indicated.

These two Liberal 'Democrat' MPs are not calling for a referendum because they believe passionately that we should have a say on the EU 'Amending' Treaty (EU Constitution version 2)- they are doing it because they hold their seats with small majorities and have UKIP and the Conservatives (who both want a Treaty referendum) breathing down their necks.

The two MPs (Heath and Hemming) are - like the rest in their party - europhiles.

They just want to hold on to their seats in the Commons at the next General Election and fear losing votes to candidates who will campaign for a retrospective referendum on the Treaty at the next General Election.

Britannist · 16-02-2008, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkpdavies

Britannist wrote: Why not wait to see how they actually vote on the day first?

MKP Davies wrote: Because I want them to feel encouraged to sticking with doing the right thing now.

A fair reply. But I hope if one or both of the named Liberal 'Democrat' MPs abstains or votes against a referendum (on the EU Constitution version 2 Treaty) you will complain to them.

If there were a referendum, both Heath and Hemming, would, of course, be out there campaigning long and hard for a Yes vote for the Treaty.

mkpdavies · 16-02-2008, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Britannist

A fair reply. But I hope if one or both of the named Liberal 'Democrat' MPs abstains or votes against a referendum (on the EU Constitution version 2 Treaty) you will complain to them.

If there were a referendum, both Heath and Hemming, would, of course, be out there campaigning long and hard for a Yes vote for the Treaty.

Of course I would. Until any MP joins BOO, I will also campaign vigorously for their removal at any election too.

Britannist · 16-02-2008, 03:42 PM

Thanks for your reply MKP.

If there were a referendum I would like to see what 'conditions' were attached to it (i.e. a vote in favour of devolution in Scotland in the late 1970's failed because voter turnout did not reach 60%).

I wouldn't put it past the europhile establishment which runs our country to set up various obstacles in the event of a referendum on the EU Constitution version 2 (EU 'Amending' Treaty) actually being held in the UK.

Richard Allen · 16-02-2008, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Britannist

Another europhile Liberal 'Democrat' with a small majority: 2672 votes at Birmingham Yardley at the last General Election (over Labour).

Hemming will be worried (like his colleague Heath) in losing votes at the next General Election to political parties calling for a referendum on the EU Constitution (EU 'Amending' Treaty) - with a majority of just 2672 he doesn't have to lose too many before Labour (in second place) win back this normally Labour seat in the heart of the eurosceptic English midlands.

I hope he does lose the seat - the Liberal 'Democrats' are nothing more than the political arm of the EU in the UK and I want them all out of the Commons.

Birmingham Yardley result at the May 2005 General Election:

The Electoral Commission : Election results

I live in this constituency and Hemming will win next time with a hugely increased majority regardless of how he votes on this issue.

Richard Allen · 16-02-2008, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Britannist

These two Liberal 'Democrat' MPs are not calling for a referendum because they believe passionately that we should have a say on the EU 'Amending' Treaty (EU Constitution version 2)- they are doing it because they hold their seats with small majorities and have UKIP and the Conservatives (who both want a Treaty referendum) breathing down their necks.

The two MPs (Heath and Hemming) are - like the rest in their party - europhiles.

They just want to hold on to their seats in the Commons at the next General Election and fear losing votes to candidates who will campaign for a retrospective referendum on the Treaty at the next General Election.

I think that this is unfair. To automatically assume the worst of these two men does you no credit. I don't know about Heath but Hemming has consistently said that he stood on a manifesto which said he would vote for a referendum and that he would stick to that pledge. Just because we disagree with many of their views it does not mean that that are not they are not acting in honourable manor on this and we should acknowledge the possibility that they are.

Baron von Lotsov · 16-02-2008, 05:58 PM

Yes but it's all about local battles in order to win the war. There is not going to be a UKIP majority in the House of Commons anytime soon but far more likely that increasing numbers of MPs from whichever party decide to take an independent line and vote according to their constituent's wishes. There is nothing wrong with that; they can chuck one or two out but not any more than that. The first ones to rebel have the most to loose and especially those in high positions within their party. However their actions mean we have most to gain since when a senior MP votes the way he does many others will be inspired to do so as well.

This man is on our side and where we would not hope to influence a Libdem ourselves he has that ability since he is one of their group. I suppose it's the same kind of tactic as UKIP MEPs, you have to be in the talking shop to do anything about it. How else would we hear what goes on in Brussels? Likewise a man on the inside of the Libdems is a great asset and if he were to loose his seat others would not wish to follow, but suppose his majority increases as a result, something that is likely to happen given the eurosceptic aspect of our local area. Well it's a case of boxing clever I suppose.

16-02-2008, 03:42 PM	#17 (permalink)
Britannist Uber Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: London Posts: 22,896	Referendum, devolution, Scotland, voter turnout, europhile establishment, UK, event Thanks for your reply MKP. If there were a referendum I would like to see what 'conditions' were attached to it (i.e. a vote in favour of devolution in Scotland in the late 1970's failed because voter turnout did not reach 60%). I wouldn't put it past the europhile establishment which runs our country to set up various obstacles in the event of a referendum on the EU Constitution version 2 (EU 'Amending' Treaty) actually being held in the UK.

16-02-2008, 05:58 PM	#20 (permalink)
Baron von Lotsov Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 892	Yes but it's all about local battles in order to win the war. There is not going to be a UKIP majority in the House of Commons anytime soon but far more likely that increasing numbers of MPs from whichever party decide to take an independent line and vote according to their constituent's wishes. There is nothing wrong with that; they can chuck one or two out but not any more than that. The first ones to rebel have the most to loose and especially those in high positions within their party. However their actions mean we have most to gain since when a senior MP votes the way he does many others will be inspired to do so as well. This man is on our side and where we would not hope to influence a Libdem ourselves he has that ability since he is one of their group. I suppose it's the same kind of tactic as UKIP MEPs, you have to be in the talking shop to do anything about it. How else would we hear what goes on in Brussels? Likewise a man on the inside of the Libdems is a great asset and if he were to loose his seat others would not wish to follow, but suppose his majority increases as a result, something that is likely to happen given the eurosceptic aspect of our local area. Well it's a case of boxing clever I suppose. __________________ "A government big enough to supply you with everything you need, is a government big enough to take away everything that you have..."

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16-02-2008, 03:05 PM	#12 (permalink)
Tom Wilde Moderator Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: London. Posts: 2,757	It's encouraging, though, isn't it? Let's hope they stick to their guns and vote as they've indicated.