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Originally Posted by Stoic Thinker
Seriously mate, you need to calm down  . |
I was being calm.
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Originally Posted by Stoic Thinker
You don't seem to see the flaw in your approach - In a perfect world, there would be an ideal situation for humanity, where everyone could live happily and go dancing in the fields with daisies in their hair, etc.
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I don't believe a perfect world exists, nor that it could exist. It was that which made me turn from Communism as being fundamentally unworkable.
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Originally Posted by Stoic Thinker
Unfortunately, between the liberal fantasy world and the world we actually live in, pesky reality has an irksome habit of intervening and showing the middle finger to such dreams of utopia.
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You're telling me nothing I don't already know.
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Originally Posted by Stoic Thinker
The mistake you are making is that of thinking you know what is best for humanity. But, I ask you, who has ever fully understood humanity? No-one. Thus, who is qualified to say that they know the best course for humanity? Again, no-one.
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No-one is best qualified, and I didn't claim that anyone was. As I said, though, when choices are made the decision-maker should do what they think is in the best interests of humanity - whether they are right or wrong.
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Originally Posted by Stoic Thinker
There probably is no best course. Why? Because we live in an imperfect world, and we all suffer from the same human sickness. We will always be killing each other, stealing from one another etc. Deal with it.
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I dealt with it a long time ago. That doesn't stop me trying to make things better.
As for whether there is a best course, there is one. That doesn't mean we know what it is or even what it was, but it doesn't stop us from trying to achieve one.
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Originally Posted by Stoic Thinker
Consider Communism, for example. As I view it, the basic premise of Communism is that all injustice and suffering in this world is a result of imperfect societies, and that if the perfect society were to be built, then you would have a true heaven on Earth.
The mistake Communism makes is to believe that our human weaknesses are a result of corrupt societies rather than being innate in us. Communism believed that in a Communist society there would be no robbery, murder, jealousy etc. Well, we all know what happened. It turned out far worse than the society it set out to replace.
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I agree.
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Originally Posted by Stoic Thinker
Seriously, if I didn't believe that we are all inherently capable of evil, I would be a dedicated Communist.
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As would I.
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Originally Posted by Stoic Thinker
As it is, I know that we are, and that therefore the idea of paradise on Earth is a contradiction-in-terms, and that any attempt to create one is bound to fail by default (as seen with Communism).
Yet, I believe that, in the beginning, many Communists truly believed in what they were trying to achieve.
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I agree.
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Originally Posted by Stoic Thinker
Therefore, one should be careful of trying to achieve what is 'best for humanity'. (I'm sure the Nazi's believed in their own actions in the same way the Communists did).
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I'm sure the Nazis also believed that what they were doing was wiping out a large portion of the human population, which I am sure humanity as a whole would agree was not good for it.
It is at that point that we rectify the mess made by them. As I said earlier, the mess is tidied up when wrong decisions are made.
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Originally Posted by Stoic Thinker
The bottom line is that nobody knows, and nobody will ever know.
There is nothing wrong with acting in your nations' best interests. It only becomes a problem when patriotism becomes nationalism, and hatreds arise etc.
Again, I truly believe that a world without nations would be a better place, but I am realistic enough to realise that such a concept can only exist in cloud cuckoo land.
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I would have no other world but one with nations. Nations avoid world government, which is the only way the people would be prevented from changing the system (and as said earlier in that part of my essay, the inability to change something is truly the worst thing that can happen to humans). They also prevent anarchy.
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Originally Posted by Stoic Thinker
Yes, our treatment of other countries may have been less than ideal, but we have also done a lot of good for the world. Name me one empire which has not committed mistakes. The world is a brutal place - get over it.
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You are attacking non-existent points.
I have never said that the world is not a brutal place, nor that any empire has not committed mistakes, nor that we have not done a lot of good.
Just look at what we did for agriculture in India.
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Originally Posted by Stoic Thinker
Again, like it or not, the world is split up into different races and different patches of land. I'm sorry, but nations are a natural and logical fact. In an ideal world, all humans would look the same, and the world would be one connected patch of land (with no islands ). But it's not. |
Once again, I have not said anything contrary to that.
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Originally Posted by Stoic Thinker
I appreciate that you may have spent several months developing your opinions, but that is no reason to react with anger and hostility when they are challenged.
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It was neither angry nor hostile.
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Originally Posted by BonnieDundee
To be honest Akria I think that is ********. Life is lived locally at the human scale, you cannot know humanity or the globe because it is beyond human facilities to do so. Even South West England is a massive stretch for someone. As Edmund Burke suggested feelings should begin and largely stay with our small platoons; our families, our communities and our region. This would be alot better for the world than internationalism and nationalism being based on a real human measure.
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I agree and disagree with you.
I agree that one cannot know humanity or the globe.
I disagree that feelings should stay with 'our small platoons'.
I would argue that you need not know something very well to try and do what is best for it.