Quote:
Originally Posted by Harbinger
ID cards wont stop terrorism but they wont hurl us into tyranny either.
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What's the point of having them then, if you've already admitted that they won't stop terrorism? I thought that was your original argument.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harbinger
They are a useful tool, a toold for identifying and keeping track of people in just the same way that passports are used.
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Why do you want to track the general population? What have they done wrong? Don't you believe in freedom?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harbinger
Passports dont stop terrorism either and they can be forged as well as an ID card but I dont suppose you would advocate getting rid of them.
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Having a passport is a
voluntary document, having an ID card is not optional. A passport also does not carry my iris scan, finger print and/or DNA.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harbinger
Immigrants ae here to stay, whover said deport them is in cloud cuckoo land, however ID cards would also help weed out illegals.
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This is disputed.
From the Conservatives:
ID cards won't prevent illegal immigration: Foreign visitors will not have to have an ID card, unless they plan to stay in the UK for more than three months.
From the Lib Dems:The Home Office wants to make it compulsory for people to present their card when applying for a job in the UK, and claims that this will prevent illegal working. But employers in industries with high levels of illegal labour are already required to check identity documents. The problem is that the Home Office doesn’t inspect them to make sure they are following the rules. There were only 2 prosecutions for employing an illegal worker in 2003. The fact that illegal immigrants will not be able to get ID cards will not change anything as long as there are unscrupulous employers and lax Home Office enforcement.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harbinger
Like any new legislation it needs to be tweaked and reviewed council using the powers for minor offences should be bought to book, it doesnt make the law bad.
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I dispute the law isn't bad, but assuming for a moment that it isn't - if anything the incidents with the councils and the Terrorism Acts just goes to prove that you can't trust the "honest intentions" of the government with such powers - they'll be abused.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harbinger
The detention times are required for effective investigation but the times are still subject to regular review.
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We already have the longest detention times in the Western world. Please tell me why 90 days is necessary.
"Liberty staff interviewed terrorism specialists and lawyers in 15 countries.
Their research found that in the U.S. the detention limit is two days, in France it is six, Italy four and in Turkey suspects can be held for 7-1/2 days.
In Spain, where 191 people died in the 2004 Madrid train bombings, there is a five-day detention limit. The closest any country comes to Britain's month-long limit is Australia with 12 days."
Britain has longest terrorism detention | UK | Reuters
UK terror detention limit is longest of any democracy | UK news | The Guardian
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harbinger
We need to tighten up our terror laws, the UK is a happy hunting ground for illegal and legal immigrants, terrorists people traffickers and the like.
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First off, what's wrong with
legal immigrants?
Secondly, we do not need new laws to tackle the others issues you mention, we need better enforcement of
existing legislation.