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Originally Posted by rjt
I agree with you that I dont want Labour or Tory in charge of our services either. I am afraid if you are proposing a dismantling of the welfare state the cost is the most important thing and the cost of private health and education is more exensive than its state provision,
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This isn't true. Take for example the American healthcare system of forty yeaars ago. Currently they spend around 16% of all American tax on health (which I think, surprisingly, is more than we do). Forty years ago, the USA spent 5% on healthcare. They had one of, if not the best healthcare system in the world.
Furthermore, even at the current state, although less US citizens have access to healthcare, those that do are more likely to survive due to better standards of care.
Finally, this debate is not considering the thousands that die every year in our health service, not from poor care, but by being on waiting lists.
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it is the beurocracy which causes the costs and needs attacking as does the level of care the state should provide.
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Bureaucracy is always a problem, but waiting for the 'right people' to be in charge is not going to solve the problem. The problem is the state, not the party in charge.
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Again you argument is not valid about christanity, you dont even know the bible, give to caesar what belongs to caesar and give to God what belongs to God. Taxes if fairly implemnted are perfectly legitamte for christians.
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I was actually thinking of this quote when I wrote what I did. It's nice that you use one of the most ambiguous statements in the Bible. Many Christians, such as Henry David Thoreau used this statement as an attack by Jesus upon the state.
Could you seriously expect Jesus to offer support for Caesar, when at the same time Caesar is spending that tax money on invading the Germanic tribes, the state of Pontus and having his legions crush Jewish uprisings and slave revolts? Furthermore, Thoreau offers two points in connection with this very quote. Firstly, that it opens up the question: 'What is rightfully Caesar's?" He would obviously say, nothing that is taken by force. Secondly, Do you really think that Jesus would trample upon the rule 'Thou shall not kill'? He did come to fulfill the law did He not?
EDIT: I just noticed that this is in the Wikipedia link posted above. You can get a much better explanation of his point there than I can give with my poor explanation skills.
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You are quite entitled to raise the issues of other countrys as examples where things are done diffrently , but please show me where in this country and after all we should be looking to act in our national intrest if we want this freedom you talk off,
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If we cannot learn from others, then what kind of a nation are we? Are we seriously too proud to copy the good actions of other lands?
Furthermore, the rights which allow human liberty and freedom are universal. Again, bringing up the Christian connection, you seem to be espousing some kind of subjectivism. There will be plenty (probably a majority) who will argue that it is not in the Chinese self interest to free Tibet or to open up their political and economic systems.
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show me where there is widespread support for dismatling a health service where care is free at the point of use in favour of insurance schemes, show me where dismatling a state education system is less popular than say a vouchar scheme.
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Might does not make right.
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telll me how someone accused of a crime can get legal representation without legal aid.
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I don't want to abolish the legal system. This, in my opinion, is one of the very few functions the state should do - for the primary reason that justice should be blind and universal, otherwise it is not justice.
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You are more than entitled to your views but they are hardly realistic as regards mianstream political thinking. I am intrested in partys who have cohrent and workable programs for government.
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Right back at you.