Quote:
|
Ummm! Look at post #10, you called democracy evil then! In my opinion communism played no role whatsoever in improving western nations. Free markets (free-ish) and representative democracy did that. Look at how poor the average Western country was under communism, IE the old Soviet Block. And it was the British navy, acting under the orders of the House of Parliament that swept the Atlantic of slave ships, in the face of opposition from other western countries, and ended the slave trade. So not everything democracy does is bad; neither is it faultless. On the other hand I can't think of anything much good at all that communism has done.
|
What about the British invasion of Tibet and the great game she played against Tscar russia?
Quote:
|
Granted. It's a pity there were no similar rights movements in any communist country that I am aware of. I pointed out there was no Tibetan equivalent of Martin Luther King.
|
Why do you need to end segregation and promote equality in a communist country if you know what communism stands for?
Quote:
|
I don't think I have accused you of lying have I? Neither is disagreeing with you an attack. I am prepared to believe the Free Tibet movement should be as scrutinised as any other movement.
|
But you said:"Further, I would suggest that anybody who acts as an appologist for an illegal invasion of an independent nation and subsequent genocide is probably not best placed to start questioning others on what 'the spirit of human rights and democracy' means! " Enforcing an consensus through rhetoric is against the idea of scrutinizing Free Tibet movement.
Quote:
I consider the eyewitness accounts I have read to be reliable.
I'm not beating a dead horse. The Tibetans want their country back, they want to be free! I have listened to what the Chinese government have said about Tibet, and I have read up on the history of Tibet. I believe the Tibetans side of the story.
|
I believe that unless the advocates can prove or even try to show that Indepence is good for China and Tibet and all people regardless of faith or skin colour, I cant believe they have formed a rationale and mature view of complex issues.
Quote:
(Incidently the Free Tibet movement didn't convince me of anything - one way or the other. I read a section in a mountaineering memoir that had a few pages about Tibet in it. I read up on Tibet and formed my own conclusions without reference to the Free Tibet movement)
Just because crimes happened some decades ago does not mean that they were not crimes then. Neither does it mean reparation should not be made today or at some future point. Again, you confuse the Chinese and Tibetan people and their interests. Were the Tibetans free to speak without fear of persecution I'm sure they would say the same; or substantialy similar.
|
You talked about the so called crimes but you are not talking about paying reparations to Tibetans. You talked about Tibetans should form an independent nation. You talked about ethicially Chinese civilians in Tibet should go home and leave Tibet which is only for Tibetans. There is not much different from the teaching of Free Tibet Movement.
It does not mean that Tibetan independence will be a win-win situation for all.
I said pages ago I had no disillusionment about China. Certain ideas of control and stability in a vast populous dveloping nation is not in line with many libertarians here. It is not about pointing fingers at the time being but what free Tibet is really about.
Tell me a nation that supports its secessionist movement.
Even USA kept control of guatemala prisoners out of constitutional control when it regrads terrorism as a threat.
Welcome to the world of realpolitik.
If we believe in your logic of "historical justice" assuming your past account of CCp's opression being largely proven true and thus Tibet shall be independent with Chinese settlements being sent back to the East, I think the modern English all the more could very well be in a simlar position. Not only a large of them should go back to modern Denmark, they should share a colletive guilt and promote the establishment of a new nation solely by the Celtic settlers( if there exist a significant number of them in the south and wales) on English soil. Of course you will know the humour if you study about the Anglo-Saxon conquests and the founding of England for it had been for more "oppressive" than Apartheid South Africa.