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Old 23-11-2007, 11:34 AM   #7 (permalink)
Millennium3
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Originally Posted by Eurosceptic Atlanticist View Post
the Tories have also pledged to scrap ID cards. It's not clear if they'd give a retrospective referendum on the Lisbon Treaty or not.

I'm not voting Lib Dem - they've ****** Cornwall well and truly.
From today's Telegraph:

Tories should pledge a vote on being in the EU
By Iain Dale
Last Updated: 12:01am GMT 23/11/2007

Stealing other parties' policies is almost de rigueur for politicians nowadays. Gordon Brown is the busiest magpie of all: none the less I suggest that David Cameron looks to the Lib Dems to steal a policy that might mean the difference between being the largest party in a hung parliament and being prime minister of a government with a Conservative majority.

Iain Dale's Diary: Political commentary from heart of Westminster
For a decade, the Tories have struggled to develop a strategy to minimise the threat from the United Kingdom Independence Party (UKIP). In both 2001 and 2005, UKIP's presence in marginals is estimated to have cost the Conservatives between 20 and 30 seats. If that were to happen in 2009 or 2010, it might mean the difference between a hung parliament and an overall majority, or even the difference between a hung parliament and a Labour majority.

One thing the Conservatives have learnt is that you can never appease UKIP. No matter how Euro-sceptic you appear, it wants only one thing - withdrawal from the EU. Nothing else matters. You can argue with it until you are blue in the face that, if it puts up candidates in Labour marginals, it will only achieve the increased likelihood of a Europhile government. But it can't see beyond its short-term blinkers.

UKIP's leader, Nigel Farage, has said he will not put up candidates against MPs and candidates from other parties who sign up to the Better Off Out campaign, but even then he adds that UKIP will stand down only if it judges the candidate to be genuine. How nice of it.

Since David Cameron became leader, he has tried to avoid the European issue dominating political debate. It is only the European constitution that has encouraged him to speak. He - alone among the three party leaders - has re-committed his party to holding a referendum on the European reform treaty.

But he has been outgunned by the Lib Dems, who have refused to offer a referendum on the treaty and instead have said there should be a referendum on EU membership itself, to settle the issue once and for all.

Most commentators reckon it's a little odd for a Europhile party to come up with such a policy, but by proposing a referendum on "In or Out", the Lib Dems have made it mainstream and acceptable. Some Labour MPs also think it is a good idea. If the Conservatives had proposed it when Michael Howard was leader, it would have been written up as yet another sign of a move to the Right. Now that the Lib Dems back it, such a tag would be more difficult to make stick.

So what would happen if Cameron borrowed this Lib Dem policy? Well, in one fell swoop he could kill UKIP and negate its reason for existing. No one seriously believes UKIP can ever wield power. It can never achieve its ultimate aim. Its supporters are by no means all former Tories, but they all have one thing in common: they vote on a single issue. But wouldn't it create yet another split on Europe within the Conservatives, and make it appear divided? Well, not if the leadership repeated the stance of 1975 and allowed its MPs and candidates to campaign according to their consciences. Face it, there are Euro-sceptics in all political parties, not just the Conservatives.

At the last election, UKIP gained more than 600,000 votes. It is entirely conceivable that this number could halve anyway, even without any Conservative commitment to an "In or Out" referendum. The party has failed to make any headway recently. Already, some of its leading lights are speculating that it won't be able to field more than a couple of hundred candidates at the next election. Its desire to expand its policy platform beyond its unique selling point of EU withdrawal means that its efforts are diluted.

So it may be argued that the Conservatives need do nothing, and just watch UKIP wither on the vine. This would be a mistake. Ignoring parties such as UKIP is invariably something the major parties live to regret. Their arguments need to be taken on and countered. If Labour had taken on the BNP in Burnley and other towns in the North, the BNP might have been strangled at birth.

There may well be other ways of countering the UKIP threat, apart from following the Lib Dems down the road of an "In or Out" referendum. But the Conservative Party needs to work out what they are, and implement them quickly. It cannot afford to write off half a million votes, and 20 or 30 seats.

Tories should pledge a vote on being in the EU - Telegraph

I don't believe Cameron will hold a retrospective vote on the RT because their current demand for a referendum is purely political - they do not expect to be in power before the treaty is signed and they have been seen backing further and further away from this since it was first promised.

A referendum on our continued membership of the EU when they come to power makes good since for the reasons already stated.
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