British Democracy Forum - View Single Post - If the UK divides what will happen to UKIP

Pragmatist · 08-12-2006, 07:48 AM

Hartlepool
As far as i am aware the French are not invading so you can come out from under the table and take your respirator off...oh i see you were not wearing one...sorry.

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Look, the trend appears to be that people are feeling disenfranchised from the union, in other words it does not provide tangable benefits that is something that can be felt by the ordinary person in the street. I am quite easy as to whether the UK splits up or not, however, we must be able to agree on some very basic points before we carry on with this discussion.

1. The future of the union is quite likely to be decided by a Scotish vote.
2. Unionist sentiment north of the border is ebbing away despite the so called benefits.
3. UKIP has very little in the way of popular support in Scotland.
3. If Scotland votes to go it alone then by default England will become independent.
4. In this event the future of unionist parties is unclear.

Now my original question was posed in a deliberately provocative way to see the absolute positions of both the UKIP and ED sides of this coin and this is my conclusion.

As a general principle both parties seem to agree with a form of independence, UKIP from the EU and the ED's from the EU and the UK. Both these positions have some validity yet the tide seems to be in the ED's favour if current trends continue and i can detect an inconsitency in the UKIP argument which must be addressed, it is this....

If UKIP want UK independence from an EU superstate then why cannot the ED's equally claim independence from the UK superstate? As a matter of principle surely UKIP members must see that inconsistency in their objection to English aspirations?
Likewise, i suspect that the ED's frustration with UKIP is that they sense a wasted opprtunity after the last EU elections when UKIP were given a thumping mandate by the electorate to do something.....what has been done.......nothing tangable at all. UKIP are seen to jump on the bandwagon of other peole's endeavours as private individuals uncover the truth about the EU, i suspect UKIP MEP's are fast becoming seduced by the very thng they claim to despise.

On balance i favour the ED's position. Unless UKIP can provide evidence to the contrary.

08-12-2006, 07:48 AM	#28 (permalink)
Pragmatist Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Lancaster Posts: 13	Hartlepool As far as i am aware the French are not invading so you can come out from under the table and take your respirator off...oh i see you were not wearing one...sorry. .................................................. ............................. Look, the trend appears to be that people are feeling disenfranchised from the union, in other words it does not provide tangable benefits that is something that can be felt by the ordinary person in the street. I am quite easy as to whether the UK splits up or not, however, we must be able to agree on some very basic points before we carry on with this discussion. 1. The future of the union is quite likely to be decided by a Scotish vote. 2. Unionist sentiment north of the border is ebbing away despite the so called benefits. 3. UKIP has very little in the way of popular support in Scotland. 3. If Scotland votes to go it alone then by default England will become independent. 4. In this event the future of unionist parties is unclear. Now my original question was posed in a deliberately provocative way to see the absolute positions of both the UKIP and ED sides of this coin and this is my conclusion. As a general principle both parties seem to agree with a form of independence, UKIP from the EU and the ED's from the EU and the UK. Both these positions have some validity yet the tide seems to be in the ED's favour if current trends continue and i can detect an inconsitency in the UKIP argument which must be addressed, it is this.... If UKIP want UK independence from an EU superstate then why cannot the ED's equally claim independence from the UK superstate? As a matter of principle surely UKIP members must see that inconsistency in their objection to English aspirations? Likewise, i suspect that the ED's frustration with UKIP is that they sense a wasted opprtunity after the last EU elections when UKIP were given a thumping mandate by the electorate to do something.....what has been done.......nothing tangable at all. UKIP are seen to jump on the bandwagon of other peole's endeavours as private individuals uncover the truth about the EU, i suspect UKIP MEP's are fast becoming seduced by the very thng they claim to despise. On balance i favour the ED's position. Unless UKIP can provide evidence to the contrary.